Rob Nester: 0:00

Welcome back to Drinking With Robots. I'm your host, Rob Nester. And I'm your host, Ingrid Folkers. In this episode, it's family game night. We sit down around the game table to talk all about board games, their history, how they're a bigger business than you may realize, and how one game, Cards Against Humanity, has made a huge impact on the gaming industry. A little later, chef, bartender, game designer, and all-around badass, Chandler Tomayko from Dallas, Texas' own Algiers Club will stop by to tell us about her transition from back-a-house to behind-the-bar, how hobbies can lead you to surprising places, and how she created the herd card game with her own blood, sweat, and tears. But first, a word from our sponsor. Upgrade your cocktail game with Remedy Cocktail Company's Handcrafted Bitters. Order online at RemedyCocktailCompany.com and choose from over 20 flavors. Elevate your drink experience today. For as long as we've been modern humans, we've undoubtedly had games, whether for socializing and cultural transmission, social bonding and identity, skill development and preparation, Ritual and religious purposes, or to illustrate or garner social status and power, games have been an integral component of the human experience for longer than we've had written history. As humanity transitioned from hunter-gatherer societies to more stable agrarian ones, the type of games that were played changed as well. Outdoor physical games began to share space with indoor tabletop games. Through archeological research, it's currently believed that the oldest known board game is Mihin, or the game of the snake. The oldest board ever found dates back to the pre-dynastic period in Egypt, approximately 3600 to 3300 BCE. The game board is in the shape of a coiled snake, whose body is divided into rectangular segments. Teams of up to six players race from the tail to the head and back again, with additional lion-shaped gaming pieces. The rules and scoring of Mihin have been lost to the ages, but there's a modern equivalent that may lend clues to how it was played. A North African game known as Hyena has a similar spiraling track structure that leads from the outside, the village, to the center, the well, and back. Players race a mother piece along a spiral track from the village to the well and back. The first player to finish wins and releases a hyena, which also travels along the spiral, consuming other players' pieces as it encounters them. Another early board game is Sinet. Composed of a board with 30 squares arranged in three rows of ten, along with ten or more pawns. Archaeologists have found fragmentary boards dating back to approximately 3100 BCE. Sinet was a popular and important enough game within Egyptian society to be depicted in paintings, such as the one in the third dynasty tomb of the high official Hesse, or the fifth dynasty tomb of the vizier Rehepsis. There are even depictions of rulers such as King too uncommon and the wife of Ramsay the second playing Sinet in tomb art. Like Meehan, the rules and specifications for gameplay of Sinet have been lost to the ages. There are, however, reconstructed rules available for replica boards found for sale. Perhaps the oldest game for which we know all the rules in gameplay is the Royal Game of Ur. Believed to originate somewhere between 2600 and 2400 BCE in the Middle East. This game is a strategy race game for two players. It was a universally popular game across all social classes of the era. In 2013, a study of nearly 100 well dated game boards from across the Near East highlighted numerous In significant changes over 1200 years in the layout of the squares on the board. Indicating that the rules and gameplay weren't static, but changed over time. The study also provided insight on how and when the game traveled from its origin in Mesopotamia to the Levant, that's the area around Israel and Palestine, around 1800 BC, and from the Levant to Egypt around 1600 BC, and then from Egypt back to the Levant and elsewhere in the region. While Meehan, Sinet, and the Royal Game of Ur are among some of the oldest board games, their popularity diminished over time as they were supplanted by some of the most popular games in history. Go, one of the world's oldest and most revered strategy games, has been continuously played for over 2500 years. Originating in ancient China, it was initially played on a 17 by 17 grid, with the standard 19 by 19 board becoming common during the Tang Dynasty. Go's appeal lies in its deceptive simplicity and immense strategic depth. Players take turns placing black and white stones on the board, aiming to control the most territory while surrounding and capturing their opponents' pieces. Despite its straightforward rule set, Go has more possible board configurations than atoms in the observable universe, making it one of the most complex games ever devised. The game spread from China to Korea and Japan, where it became deeply embedded in samurai culture and intellectual circles. The Edo period saw the rise of professional Go schools, fostering elite players and refining strategic concepts that are still studied today. In the 20th and 21st centuries, Go's competitive landscape expanded globally, with international tournaments and AI driven breakthroughs redefining how the game is played. The 2016 victory of Google's AlphaGo AI over top ranked player Lee Sedal was a landmark moment in both Go history and artificial intelligence research, demonstrating that even human intuition in an ancient game could be surpassed by machine learning. Despite its deep history, Go remains a thriving game played by millions worldwide in clubs, online platforms and professional circuits. Its enduring legacy stands as a testament to the beauty of simple rules leading to infinite strategic possibility. Chess, one of the most well-known and influential strategy games in history, traces its origins to Chaturanga, a game played in India around the 6th century CE.

Rob Nester: Chaturanga featured pieces representing the four divisions of the Indian army: 6:49

Infantry, cavalry, elephants, and chariots, each moving in ways that would later evolve into the familiar mechanics of modern chess.

Rob Nester: 6:59

As the game spread westward through Persia, it became known as Shatranj, with rule refinements that emphasize strategic depth. The Islamic world played a crucial role in preserving and transmitting chess knowledge, leading to its introduction in Europe around the 9th to 10th century CE. By the late medieval period, chess had undergone significant modifications, including the introduction of the Queen's expanded movement, which revolutionized the game. By the 15th century, chess had largely taken on its modern form, and by the 19th century, formalized tournament play and written chess theory solidified its status as the premier game of strategy. While played throughout the ages, chess has recently undergone a massive resurgence in and popularity fueled by online platforms like chess.com and the cultural impact of Netflix's The Queen's Gambit. With the ability to play against AI, grandmasters, or friends worldwide, chess has become more accessible than ever, drawing in younger generations and competitive players alike. Following the rise of chess, board gaming entered a vibrant era characterized by expanding complexity, cultural diversity, and growing popularity. Throughout the Renaissance and Enlightenment periods, board games increasingly reflected the social, political, and philosophical ideas of their time. Games like backgammon gained widespread appeal among all social classes, blending strategic thought with elements of chance. The earliest known version of a backgammon-like game, known as Takhtanard, was played in Persia, modern-day Iran, around 500 CE, though similar race games existed in ancient Mesopotamia and Rome. Backgammon, as it's known today, evolved from table games played throughout medieval Europe. These were two-player race games that used dice to dictate movement, much like the modern version. By the 17th century, backgammon had taken on its current board layout and rule set, and it gained popularity across England and beyond. A defining moment in backgammon's history came in the 20th century with the introduction of the doubling cube, which added a gambling and risk management element to the game, making it a staple in competitive play. Today, backgammon remains widely played across the world, particularly in the Middle in the Middle East, Europe, and the United States, with international tournaments continuing to test the strategic prowess of players. Back in the 19th century, mass production transformed the board game industry, making games accessible to a broader audience. Games such as The Mansion of Happiness, published in 1843, promoted moral lessons in a playful manner, foreshadowing the educational gaming movements of the 20th century. As board games have evolved through the 20th and 21st centuries, each decade introduced iconic titles that defined family game nights, competitive strategy, and party culture. From economic simulations to word games, from trivia to social chaos, these games reflected the cultural and technological changes of their time, shaping how generations played and connected. What began in 1904 as The Landlord's Game, created by Elizabeth Maggie to highlight the dangers of wealth inequality, evolved into Monopoly, one of the most iconic and divisive board games of all time. By the 1930s, Parker Brothers had acquired the rights, streamlining it into a race for financial dominance, complete with properties, railroads, and ruthless capitalism. Despite its reputation for causing family feuds, Dammit, Grandma, you cheat. Monopoly remains a bestseller, with countless themed editions and digital adaptations. Okay, so one thing I find amazing about Monopoly is its sheer dominance of the board game market. It's the undisputed king at 32% global market share and 43% U.S. market share. That means that almost one out of every two board games sold or played in America is Monopoly. With over 1,000 themed editions, the game's brand recognition and accessibility make it an Evergreen bestseller. Even as modern board games criticize its long play times. Oh my God, that is so true. I will not play it because of that. And dated mechanics. As the Great Depression left its mark on the world, the 1930s saw the rise of lighter, more family-friendly games. Sorry, inspired by the Indian game Pachisi, gave players a simple yet frustrating race to get their pieces home, while sending opponents back to the start with a gleeful sorry. Its blend of luck and revenge made it a household staple, cementing its place as a timeless family classic. During World War II, games provided an escape from the horrors of war, and the late 1940s introduced two beloved but vastly different classics. Candyland, created in 1949, was designed by Eleanor Abbott, a polio patient who wanted to create a game accessible for young children. Its color-based movement made it one of the first true entry-level board games, requiring no reading or counting. Meanwhile, at the opposite end of the spectrum, Clue, released the same year, invited players into a murder mystery, challenging them to deduce who committed the crime, where, and with what weapon. The game's blend of strategy and deduction made it a staple for detective fiction lovers. The 1950s gave rise to two very different gaming experiences. Yahtzee, based on earlier dice games, became a fast-paced, push-your-luck experience, emphasizing probability and decision-making. The game was invented by an anonymous Canadian couple who called it"The Yacht Game" because they played it on their yacht with their friends. In contrast, Risk, designed by Albert LeMaurice, introduced strategic world domination, making it a precursor to modern war games. With its territory, control mechanics, and evolving alliances, Risk transformed gaming into an exercise in diplomacy, deception, and conquest. The 1960s brought both movement and military strategy to the forefront. Twister, created in 1966, was a cultural phenomenon, bringing people to the floor in a contorted battle of balance and flexibility. Marketed as a game that ties you up in knots, it became a party sensation, famously skyrocketing in popularity after being played on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. Stratego, made in 1961, was a Napoleonic-era battle game, challenging players to outmaneuver their opponents' hidden ranks, combining elements of chess and warfare strategy in an accessible, fast-paced format. The 1970s leaned into head-to-head competition with games that were simple to learn, but deeply engaging. Battleship, originally played with pen and paper, became a mass market sensation with plastic game boards and pegs, transforming a hidden information naval warfare game into an iconic household staple. I personally have fond memories of playing Battleship with my cousin in the mid-1980s, with what would have been one of the first editions of this game. Connect Four took the simple concept of tic-tac-toe and turned it vertical. Each player chooses a color and then takes turns dropping colored tokens into a six-row, seven-column, vertically suspended grid. The objective of the game was to be the first to form a horizontal, vertical, or diagonal line of four of one's own tokens. Here's a little tip for you the next time you play. Connect Four is what's known as a"solved game", meaning the first player can always win by playing the right moves. The 1980s saw the rise of social and intellectual games. Trivial Pursuit, one of my Mine too, transformed general knowledge into a competitive sport, sparking a trivia craze that would dominate coffee tables for decades. On the flip side, Pictionary embraced creative chaos, challenging players to sketch their way to victory before time ran out. These games encouraged social interaction and quick thinking, Shaping the party game genre for future generations. The 1990s were a turning point in board gaming, introducing modern mechanics and social play. The Settlers of Catan, now just called Catan, revolutionized gaming by popularizing resource management, trading, and non-elimination-based competition. It paved the way for the Euro game movement, emphasizing strategy over luck. The 2000s continued the rise of Euro games and fast-paced casual play. Carcassonne introduced tile-laying mechanics where players built cities and roads while strategically placing followers for points. Its simple but deep gameplay made it an instant classic. Meanwhile, Bananagrams reimagined word games as a fast, free-form, crossword-building experience, offering a more dynamic alternative to Scrabble. The 2010s embraced irreverence and internet culture in board games. Cards Against Humanity took a simple, fill-in-the-blank format and injected it with dark, often offensive humor, making it a viral party hit. Meanwhile, Exploding Kittens became one of the most funded Kickstarter games ever, combining absurd illustrations by the oatmeal, which we'll link to in the show notes, with strategic risk-taking in a simple yet hilarious game. Both games exemplified the era's meme-driven social gaming trends. Rob Nesters have been a source of social connection and strategic challenge. But in the 21st century, they have evolved into a thriving global industry. Once considered a niche market, the board game industry has ballooned into a multi-billion-dollar business, fueled by innovative design, digital integration, and a resurgence in tabletop gaming culture. In 2024, the global board game market was valued at almost 16 billion U.S. dollars, and it's projected to nearly double to 32 billion by 2032, growing at an impressive annual growth rate of 11% between 2025 and 2032. While board games are enjoyed worldwide, certain regions dominate the market. The United States stands as the largest single market, valued at $6 billion in 2023, with growth expected to continue as more people embrace tabletop gaming in social settings, schools, and competitive play. In Europe and Asia-Pacific, demand is surging due to the rise of board game cafes, the increasing popularity of Euro games, and the adoption of board games as educational tools. Meanwhile, emerging markets in Latin America and Southeast Asia are becoming new frontiers for the industry, driven by rising disposable income, the expansion of digital gaming communities, and a growing interest in social gaming experiences. Several key factors are fueling the rapid expansion of the board game industry, transforming it into a powerhouse of entertainment and social engagement. Board game cafes have evolved into social hubs, providing spaces where people can gather, play, and engage in a shared gaming experience while enjoying food and drinks. These establishments are booming in North America, Europe, and parts of Asia, particularly in Japan, South Korea, and China, where social gaming culture is thriving. Board games inspired by movies, TV shows, books, and video games have become a major revenue driver. Games based on franchises, like Harry Potter, Star Wars, and Marvel are particularly popular among children, while adults gravitate toward narrative-driven and cooperative experiences, like betrayal at House on the Hill and Horrified. Board gaming is no longer just for kids. The 25-plus demographic accounts for a significant portion of the market, with millennials and Gen Z driving the resurgence. Nostalgia, a desire for screen-free social interaction, and an appreciation for strategy-based gameplay have made tabletop gaming a staple of modern social life. Crowdfunding platforms like Kickstarter and GameFound have further accelerated this trend, enabling independent designers to fund and develop complex, high-quality games targeted at adult audiences. Board games have found a new role in education, with games such as chess, Go, and math-based logic games gaining popularity due to increased emphasis on STEM learning. Schools and learning institutions are incorporating strategy games into curricula, using them as tools to enhance problem-solving, critical thinking, and teamwork. The success of Scrabble, Catan, and chess in both classroom and competitive settings highlights the expanding role of board games in educational gamification. As history has shown, games often serve as more than simple entertainment. They act as reflections of culture, social norms, and shared experiences. Some games are designed to teach, some to challenge, and others to bring people together while they die in fits of inappropriate laughter. Cards Against Humanity crafts a game that thrives on the absurd, the offensive, and the outright ridiculous. Self-described as a party game for horrible people, Cards Against Humanity is a twisted, adult reinterpretation of the classic party game apples-to-apples, transforming friendly word association into a chaotic exercise in dark humor and social daring. At its core, Cards Against Humanity is a simple fill-in-the-blank game, yet its appeal lies in the unpredictability of the responses. Each round, one player takes on the role of the card czar, who acts as the judge. The czar selects and reads a black card which contains either a prompt or an open-ended question, leaving room for an absurd or shocking response. The remaining players select one or more white cards from their hand, each containing a random phrase, word, or statement to complete the prompt. The card czar reviews the submissions and selects their favorite, whether it's the funniest, the most outrageous, or simply the most inappropriate. The player who submitted the winning response earns a point, and the game moves on. A typical round might unfold as follows. The card czar reads a black card, such as,"What ruined my last relationship?" The players then submit responses like, "My browser history,""A sex dungeon," "A fart so powerful that it wakes the dead," or simply, "Bees?" Side note, "Bees" is our judge's favorite card in Cards Against Humanity. With each round, the potential for unexpected combinations and Unintentional storytelling grows, leading to moments of shared humor, uncontrollable laughter, or deep existential questioning. What makes Cards Against Humanity such a lasting phenomenon is its sheer unpredictability. The game thrives on a mix of offensive, absurd, and often crude humor, Creating a unique experience that changes with every group of players. No two rounds are Ever quite the same. And the dynamic between participants, whether longtime friends or complete strangers, can shift the game from lighthearted banter to uncontrollable, laughter-fueled chaos. The game's replayability is another factor in its widespread popularity. With hundreds of potential card combinations, it's unlikely that any two games Will be identical. With that said, even Cards Against Humanity has its limitations. Some jokes, no matter how shocking or hilarious the first time around, lose their punch after repeated play. There are, after all, only so many times you can laugh at Mecha-Hitler before it becomes another predictable punchline. Yet, for many, the social component of reading the room, Learning what will make a particular card czar crack up, becomes part of the strategic, or at least manipulative, element of the game. Another major factor in the game's success is its accessibility. The rules are straightforward, the rounds are quick, and the fun is immediate. Unlike strategy-heavy games that require deep thought or commitment, Cards Against Humanity allows players to jump in, play a few rounds, and move on, making it an easy choice for a party setting. One of the defining characteristics of Cards Against Humanity is its open source philosophy. Released under a Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 2.0 license, the game is free to copy, modify, and distribute, so long as it isn't sold for profit. This decision has led to an explosion of fan-made expansions, custom card packs, and themed editions, further increasing the game's longevity. Official expansions have also kept the game fresh. The Red Box, one of the first major expansions, introduced 300 new cards, while the Political Pack tapped into contemporary events, skewering both U.S. and global politics. The Nerd Bundle caters to pop culture enthusiasts, incorporating references to Star Wars, Dungeons & Dragons, Pokémon, and gaming culture. In short, there are enough expansion packs to ensure there's something for everyone, or at least something to deeply offend everyone. In addition to expansion, the popularity of the mechanics in Cards Against Humanity has given rise to a plethora of new party games. Among these are What Do You Meme, which swaps prompts for meme images. Players compete to match caption cards to hilarious, often absurd, meme pictures, capturing internet culture perfectly and making it especially popular with younger players and social media lovers. Keeping with imagery over words, Joking Hazard, from the creators of Cyanide and Happiness, encourages visual storytelling by having players assemble absurd, inappropriate, or downright hilarious comic strip panels, with each round judged for comedic value and shock factor. Designed to generate humor from innuendos and double entendres, that's what she said, follows Cards Against Humanity's exact mechanics, offering prompts specifically geared towards adult humor. Players match cards to create the funniest and frequently the most inappropriate scenarios. And perhaps our favorite take on the Cards Against Humanity game mechanics is Hurd, described as the game for service industry misfits. Just when you thought Cards Against Humanity couldn't get more inappropriate, along comes the service industry to show you that you ain't seen nothing yet. While Cards Against Humanity may not have the historical legacy of chess, go, or monopoly, it taps into the shared experience, the zeitgeist, the determination of just where "the line" is for humor within and among your group of friends. It has definitely proven that sometimes the best way to bring people together is to make them laugh, no matter how terrible that laughter may be, even if it's due to two midgets shitting in a bucket forever. And on that note, stick around after the break when we find out if our guest, Chandler Tameko of Dallas, Texas' own Algiers Club, has what it takes to defeat our AI competitor, or if she'll go home having said, "You sank my battleship!" Are you a professional bartender who thinks they have what it takes to defeat our AI challenger? If so, we'd love to talk to you. Reach out by sliding into our DMs. We're DrinkingWithRobots on Instagram or email us at bookings@DrinkingWithRobots.com. Hey, you. Yeah, you, listening right now. Do us a favor. Make sure you've subscribed wherever you're listening to this podcast at, and then while you're at it, hop over to Apple or Spotify or any of those kind of places. And leave us a five-star review. If you leave us one, I'll make sure and read it on air. We just wanted to say thank you for listening so far. We'd love for you to connect with us on social media. You can find us at DrinkingWithRobots on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and Threads. While you're at it, go ahead and hit the subscribe button wherever you're listening to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. Also, check us out at DrinkingWithRobots.com. Alright, thanks for sticking with us. On today's episode, I'm excited to introduce our guests today because they're a triple threat. Not only did they start out in the industry as a chef and then become an amazing bartender, they are also, and this is a first for DrinkingWithRobots, they are an official game designer. We're welcoming today Chandler Tomeiko from Dallas, Texas on Algiers Club. Thank you so much for being with us, Chandler. Hi. I've got all kinds of questions for you from like a game nerd point of view, especially with like the first part of our show talking about like game history a little bit and board games and what not, but I'm going to put a pin in that. Okay. Where are you from? Tell us a little bit about you and what maybe led you into the service industry. So I'm originally from Fort Worth, Texas. And as this interview continues, my accent will probably change. When I talk about home, I sound really, really Southern and then it changes. As a Southerner, I can definitely empathize with you because no matter how well I enunciate when I start, if there is a Southern accent in the room by the time it's done, I sound like Boomhauer. So this will be wonderful. Oh, I'm so excited. Ingrid's going to hate every minute of it. Just kidding. Nuh-uh. I love your accent. Yeah, she's heard the Southern Texas Chandler sometimes. I just like to make fun of you a little bit. I know. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. Yeah. So I'm originally from Fort Worth, born and raised there for the first 10 years or so of my life. And then my family moved overseas and Costa Rica was home for a very long time. So Costa Rica was kind of my jumping point. I went to grade school and middle school there. I kind of get those mixed up. The school system's a little different. But I basically started the fifth grade there, went all the way through high school. I did culinary school there. And then that was home as I jumped around, kind of expanding my culinary career, but always coming back to Costa Rica as base until I moved back to the US. So yeah, a little bit everywhere. So when did you move back to the United States? I want to say it's going on maybe nine years now. So I hopped around. I went to culinary school, did some really cool stuff. I progressed really quickly, opened a lot of concepts for different people across the world, a lot of independent projects. And then my first place back in the US was Hawaii. And then I went back overseas, came back to Hawaii. And then my first mainland stop was Colorado. And then it was Texas and Florida. So yeah, back in Texas for the last six or seven, I think. Numbers are really hard. Food's my thing. Understandable. I think I'm 45 years old at this point. Or I don't know. I always add five years because the overlap doesn't make sense. And at what point did you transition from in the kitchen to behind the bar? Yeah. So in, I would say officially, because I did some dabbling here and there, but the official hard transition, and I think it was 2013, give or take. So I opened a restaurant for some people over in Abu Dhabi, and I want to say 2013. And I suffered from very, very heavy burnout. And it wasn't for a lot of the reasons that a lot of people thought I would have difficulties on that side of the world, being an independent woman, traveling by myself, not being of that religious descent. And then at that point in my career, while a lot of people think this is an exaggeration, I swear it is not hyperbole. For the first 14 years of my career, I worked 365 days a year, every single one of those years. I didn't take a weekend. I didn't take a holiday. I didn't take a birthday. I didn't take a day off. I started my career as an illegal immigrant in another country. So that was not a luxury I could afford. And then I just became what I was known for was not taking days off. I now know that's really bad. I had really bad burnout. And then I took a little time off, mostly because my body just said, we're not doing this anymore. Couldn't figure out how to be professional in public. So I took a sabbatical, as I like to call it. And when I came back, I tried to go back into kitchens because they are my very first and true love. But the world had changed. I hadn't been gone that long, but it's really impressive. I spent so many years in kitchens with everyone telling me, learn more, climb higher, take more education. And I did all of those things. And no one told me that I should have stopped about four years before I did because I then suddenly, as soon as I took a break, which most people do, I was too expensive to employ. I was too far ahead of my age. So they were like, you're so young. Why is your paycheck so high? That's incredibly insane. So no one wanted to pay me or they wanted to try to employ me for half of my knowledge or for half the pay. So I was like, I don't really want to do any of that and still work 90 hour weeks at a minimum. So I am going to go bartend and see what happens. And so I just absolutely left the kitchen, lied my way into a club bar position. And then I really haven't looked back. I still do kitchen things. I just, I've never taken another commercial kitchen position because I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze anymore. That's totally fair. I know a lot of industry professionals that feel very similar to how you feel about pay rate in the kitchen versus behind the bar. It's bananas. Yeah. And y'all get like, I remember my first like month or two behind a bar. Like I knew because I had friends that bartended, but then I experienced it and I was like, oh my God, y'all have shifts that are less than 10 hours. Yeah. Five, six hour shift. Nuts. I had never worked less than 14 and a half hours a shift ever. And I was like, y'all are doing, wait, if I do that, that's a double. That's crazy. My gasted was flabbered. I was just so shocked. I was so shocked. And I was like, and the money for the most part, um, especially back when I was in clubs made so much more sense. I was like, okay, I'm working half the amount of time and I'm making the same amount of money, if not better. I have the ability to like actually go have lunch with a friend and see my mom for mother's day instead of work for everybody else's mom. That's crazy. What else surprised you about the transition from kitchen to behind the bar? Ooh. Um, okay. This, this might be kind of mean. Um, I was shocked at how little, um, bartenders actually knew about how to handle ingredients. Oh my gosh. And it still happens to me this day. Like to this day, I, one of, I work at multiple places. Um, at the moment I find myself easier to stabilize if I don't put all of my eggs in one basket. Um, and so I do currently work at a corporate restaurant and they much like any establishment, but corporates even more so tend to get scheduled, although unannounced walkthroughs by health inspection people a lot more often. And the health inspectors do both kitchen and bar. And I'm always curious. I'm like, oh, well, what did the bar get dinged on? And they were like, oh, well, we had eggs on the top shelf above all the other ingredients. And I was like, you had what? Who put the eggs on the top shelf? And I'm like, well, I don't know. We just, there was space on the top shelf. I was like, that's not where eggs go. That like, that's a crazy statement to me. And they're just like, it's just eggs. And I was like, but it's not, that's where the salmonella comes from. And then I was just like, you know, you can't know what you don't know. I try to be someone that has a lot of grace for people in that regard, because I didn't know everything I know when I didn't know it. You can't know what you don't know. But at the same time, I find it incredibly surprising that the bar uses so many ingredients that you get from a kitchen, especially if you work in a hybrid location that has a kitchen and a bar. Half of the stuff that you order for your bar is done through the kitchen. Yet no one instructs the bar on how to store, how to maintain freshness. They're all just kind of going off of what they learned from another bar or a bar book. And I'm like, you've never brought in a chef to tell you how to like wrap certain herbs in a damp towel or to like put this in a sealed container and put this one in a breathable container, eggs on the bottom shelf. Just very fascinating. Kind of keeping this idea of transitioning from being a chef to being a bartender. I know that when you initially started, you said you started kind of like a high volume club atmosphere. Do you think that your ability to create and craft flavor from being a chef helped you there? Or was it not at that moment in time, but maybe it's helped since? That's a great question. I think it has. I think I also, I benefit from the fact that I've cooked in a lot of different countries. So I have a lot of flavor exposure that I wouldn't say every cook has the benefit of having. But I remember working at that first club and a lot of regulars telling me my shots tasted better. And looking back, I think it's because I had a better handle on acid and sweet balance. I also knew that we didn't have any like salt, which I work at bars now where we have a saline solution. And looking back at that club, one of the shots that sold a lot was a breakfast shot. And the way I was taught it initially was butterscotch schnapps, crown and orange juice. And I just remember thinking it was so incredibly sweet. And I was told that the flavor profile was supposed to be breakfast pancakes, OJ kind of thing. And I was like, okay. And then one day I got to work early and I swapped out the butterscotch schnapps for amaretto and the crown for an Irish whiskey. And I tested it that way. I was like, yo, this is great. And then I went home and made bacon. And that's the story of how I became a bacon dealer in that bar for about six months, because everybody lacked salt. And I was the bacon bartender. So yeah, I think I think that background definitely influences it. I think sometimes it's also a handicap because I find it hard sometimes to be simple when I approach drinks because I I'm really good at simplifying food because I had to train myself to not be the chef that goes out with friends and tears apart all of the dishes that we have, because not all of my friends were in the culinary field. However, somehow, I guess because I have more social battery and ability to hang out in the bartending world, a lot of the people I hang out with are bartenders and they're high-end bartenders. So we can go out and yeah, just enjoy a drink. But nine times out of 10, it's like, is this feeling balanced to you? So I feel like it's a little bit of a handicap when I build drink sometimes because I'm just overthinking it instead of just sometimes the best thing in the world is just a Midori sour man. Let's talk a little bit about who you are outside of the bar. I know you put a lot of your identity into your work, whether it's in a kitchen or behind the bar. But I know you have some really cool hobbies as well. Tell us about those. Um, so I think my favorite one, which I actually haven't done in a while is when I took my sabbatical in between kitchen and bars, I became a live-in caregiver for a military family. And the mother of that family was a hobbyist woodworker and needed an assistant because of her medical condition. So I learned a ton about woodworking and I loved it. And I realized I just really like staying busy and working with my hands. It's really hard for me to sit. Eating over a trash can is where I feel comfortable. Um, so I learned a lot about woodworking and I have since then built probably 95% of the furniture that I own. Um, what was once a couch is now my dining room table. I've swapped my bed and turned it into a bar, built a new bed. I don't build chairs, but I really love woodworking. Um, I'm also really into photography. I'm incredibly passionate about coffee. Um, and then I guess a quirky one is I'm a big geocacher. I love geocaching. I have a kit in my car. I've done it in a couple of different countries. I have a bucket list of certain ones I want to go do. Yeah. Big geocache vibes. Nice. Okay. Now I'm curious about this because this is something that I've, it's been on my radar for a long time, but I've never actually went and done it, but I've, I'm familiar with the concept, you know, like how it works and everything. But I imagine there has to be ones where you're like, wow, when you find it, is there any for you that stick out specifically? There's two. So I would say, um, when anybody wants to get into geocaching, um, there's, I think in my experience, there's two ways. Either you do it because you like a new activity to do, or you do it because you want to reward, right? So geocaches come in all sizes and difficulty levels. Um, and sometimes you just find something to find something and you write your name, your whole, I was here stamp for the day, but I like rewards. My neurodivergent, my neurodivergent brain really loves little treats. Um, and sometimes those treats are, you find massive boxes or contractions that have items and you can take one, leave one. It's very much take a penny, leave a penny. Um, or they lead you to really cool places. So the coolest device one I found, I was in New Jersey on an Indian reservation and there was a dead tree that was set in a cement block and you had to unhinge this thing. And the whole tree fell over and inside of the base of the tree was this ammo box. And I think I took a key chain, but like the tree was rad. And I was so excited. I felt like I was in one of those TV shows I used to watch as a kid. Um, but my absolute favorite one because of where it took me was one in Hawaii at that. I lived there on and off for five years and year three, I decided, okay, I'm going to go geocaching. I had a whole crew. We had two cars. We would do it once every two weeks. It was a blast. Uh, I would set up like a little scavenger hunt for the day. Um, but so this particular one was really fun because there is a stretch of highway that goes right around the coast and it's a stunning drive. I had driven over that thing countless times over three years. Hawaii is gorgeous, but it's also small. So you literally all the time drive over this. And there's all these parking lots on one side where you can kind of see the lookout. So you can see directly to the ocean. And then the other side of the highway is just massive, massive rock face. So this geocache is telling me it's under the road. And I was like, there's no way. So I park at the lookout and it's a very dangerous highway to cross. So you really have to be very careful. So we cross the highway and we climb over and the railing that like separates the highway from the rock face. And there's a tiny gap because they have those waterways to help with erosion. And right where that waterway kind of canal that they dig for that, there's a couple rocks that go down and it's more of like a valley. And I was like, holy cow, you can't see this from the road ever. And then we're looking and we're looking and we find the geocache. The geocache itself was a PVC pipe, maybe three feet long and caps on each side had a bunch of cool trinkets in it, but it's wedged perfectly by this massive hole in this rock face. And I was like, that looks human sized. I'm going to go through it. So we walk mildly crouched over and I'm about five, four. So like hunched over, if you were six foot, you were definitely bent at the waist and we're just kind of cruising through. And then the tunnel is super dark, but there's a light at the end of it. And when you got to the end of the tunnel, you were on this massive rock slate that opened directly up in front of the ocean. And it's the most incredible view of the island I've ever seen. You can't see it from anywhere else. I'd driven over it for three years and it was just us. It felt like we owned the island. It was so rad. I went back there probably once a month. Didn't even care about the geocache anymore. I was just like, I'm going to go climb in that tunnel. That's amazing. It was amazing. I always send people there, but I tell them that I only give them the coordinates if they sign up for geocaching. Yeah. I think if I found that kind of thing, it would definitely make me want to the dopamine hit on that would be pretty awesome. I've only been geocaching once and it was because it was an ex-boyfriend was into it. And so we went, um, but it was in Iowa and it was way less cooler than what you're describing. There's, I mean, there's some lame ones, but if anyone is interested, uh, whether it be my lovely podcast hosts or any listeners, please feel free to reach out. I'm happy to tell you how to hack it so that it's way cooler. I've been doing it for a while. So if you know your goals, if you want dopamine fix, or if you just want a task, I can tell you how to get there. Well, so talking about tasks and dopamine hits and things like that, one of the things that I mentioned at the beginning of this segment was that you're a chef, you're a bartender, and you're a game designer. I guess. Yes. I, you called me a triple threat and that's the first time anyone has ever said, but I'll take it. The first part of the show, you know, we talked about the history of board games and things like that. And we kind of closed out that segment with talking about cards against humanity. And we talked about our favorite take on cards against humanity, which is a little game you had something to do with. Oh, tell us about heard. Have you heard of heard? I do that all the time in the city that I live in. My friends are so tired of that. So yeah, I created heard, which I always describe as the service industry version of cards against humanity. So instead of black and white cards, you have blue tape and you have white cards and then everything's written in Sharpie and all the humor is about Karen's complaining and managers that suck and coworkers that call out, you know, pretty standard stuff. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I'm often impressed by people who take the initiative to go from thought to action. But I'm really curious. Like, do you remember there being a moment where you're like, oh, you know what I should do? Yeah, it's so the core origin of this. I mean, I've been in the industry for 22 years. I've definitely had business ideas. I feel like a lot of people in this industry do. And I've watched other people do them or have the idea in sync, close to, you know, ideas kind of have a way of happening in waves across the world. And I never really acted on them, whether it was because I didn't believe in myself or I didn't have the funds or I was too busy working. And Heard is really funny because I like to say I created it, but I really just listened to my community and then tried to find the best way to represent us. When the pandemic hit, that was my first inkling of the fact that there was a network of bar professionals across the country that regularly knew each other. I would say kitchen wise, that made sense to me because my career had kind of done that. But as a bar professional, I had only ever worked at a bar that hung out with its own bartenders and maybe like the neighboring bar where we would get drinks after work. And then suddenly I signed up for this virtual happy hour in hopes to get a shift is kind of what they were offering branded shifts so that you can make$100, $200. And that kind of helped you through the week during the pandemic. So I was like, oh, log on to these late night happy hours and see what they're about. In case I get the shift, I'll kind of know what to do. And everybody was in a different city and a different state, but they all knew each other and had been to each other's bars. Those happy hours very quickly devolved into a lot of drinking as a lot of things did during the pandemic. And a lot of commiseration was happening. It was, oh my gosh, I miss this regular. And they would always say this or like, you know what I don't miss is having to deal with this at work. And every so often stories would happen or comments would happen. There would be a sentence or a phrase and it would just make me laugh so hard. And I would write it down for what reason I couldn't tell you. So I had this legal pad of probably 250 sentences that made no sense. No reason why they should go together other than the fact that they were all said by someone who worked in the service industry. And the pandemic being what it was and our industry being what it is and my career having been what it was, I just thought, you know, we deserve a lot of things. Like it'd be really great to have full healthcare and it'd be really great to have paid vacations and things like that. But you know what we really deserve and that I can do? Because I definitely can't give everybody healthcare and paid vacations. We all deserve to have a little fucking fun because I'm fucking tired. I think we all are. So I was like, how do I make this fun? Because looking at it, it just looked like a lot of trauma on a piece of paper, but we were all laughing about it. I was like, there's got to be a way to harness that. And I love games. I designed a couple of games looking back. I was like, I feel like I could make this into a game, but what game? And so I started playing around with different ideas and the cards against humanity structure just made sense because everything could apply to something else, depending on just how you say it, what restaurant you work at, what bar you're from, what city you're in. And then I designed the game. I was like, all right, what does it cost to actually print this rather than just have one for me? And then I realized it was about $2,200 to print a hundred copies, which I definitely did not have. So I went and donated a lot of blood because I realized I was going to have to work way too long in a pandemic world to make that in tips. So I literally donated fluids for my body for about two and a half months. And I had the money that I needed. And I had a blood money company on my hands without an LLC. And I printed a hundred copies. I took pre-orders and I got 40, 35 of those 40 were all really good friends. And I told everybody, if the others don't sell, guess what you're getting for Christmas? Double copy. And then I put it up online and haven't looked back since. It's year three. There's 530 or 550 copies that have sold. So small, but fun and slow and steady. So I have to say, I love the story because in a very literal and empirical way, Heard is the by-product of your blood, sweat, and tears. Yeah. I love this. It's great. And I mean, most everybody's. Well, I was going to say, and this is not prompted, this is not a thing, but I'm going to tell everybody listening, go to herdcardgame.com and pick up a copy. Ingrid actually has a copy that she brought in and we were looking through and actually ended up being the basis for our prompt for this episode. So that was, uh, that was a really fun thing. Also, I will say this. There's a coffee mug on this website that I want. Oh, this one? My coffee mug? Yes. Shutting the fuck up is gluten-free. I want this coffee mug. I'll send you one. I'll send you one. Oh my God. This is amazing. I love this. Well, so with that, let's go ahead and we'll jump in. Let's talk about this prompt that we generated from using the herd card game. The prompt reads as such, we sat down to play a round of herd, the game for service industry misfits. You might've heard of it. The GM pulled the following card. The secret ingredient is blank. And out of all the submissions, the winner was definitely a water, some lemon slices and sugar packets. So with that, you have your challenge for this episode. Concoct a winning cocktail that includes water, some lemon slices and sugar packets. Make sure you remember who the GM is and bring your A game. And you did just that. Chandler, do you want to tell us about your cocktail? I would love to, but first I have to tell you the backstory of this card. I laughed audibly in the most disgusting manner in my house when I read this email. One of my favorite things about herd is that literally 95% of the cards of this deck are someone's real life story or shift comment or something like that. And I have tried my best. Sometimes I don't always get it right, but for the most part, you can pull one and I can tell you the backstory to every single card. I can tell you sometimes who it was and what bar even. That card that won the prompt is one that I created because that is my mother at every restaurant we go to. My siblings and I are always, mom, just order the damn lemonade. And she's like, no, it's not the same. The first time we played this game at my house, full disclosure, my mom does not really love this game because it has the word fuck in it. But my baby sister played this card and we all were dying of laughter. And my mother was just like, I don't understand why this card is so funny. And my baby sister just cold as ice was like, it's because it's you mom. This card is you. You just need to order lemonade and be done with it. You don't understand our industry said by a child that had been in the industry for six months. So in light of the inspiration of that card, because I actually knew that I tried to think of a cocktail. I would actually build my mother using her favorite ingredients to build her own pseudo cocktail at a restaurant. So I created something called You Can Play After Dinner. And it uses two raw sugar packets, which I did weigh because I know they are different among brands. And so it was six grams total. So two raw sugar packets, three quarters of an ounce of fresh squeezed lemon juice. I added in five mint leaves, an ounce of strong steeped oolong tea, two drops of saline solution because I do love my salt. And then I used two ounces of planteres three-star rum and two ounces of sparkling water. And I'm really passionate about bubbles and water. So I highly prefer for this particular build, something with a finer bubble, like a Perrier versus a Topo Chico. And I kind of basically tried to do a lemon mojito and then just kind of amp it up, but make it to where my mother would drink it. And so the finishing touch on it is once you've kind of presented it, it gets a mint sprig wrapped with a lemon peel, but it gets a spritz of Angostura bitters because my mom says you're always naked if you don't leave the house with a little perfume on. So I think it's a cocktail that still needs a little work, but it's definitely something my mom would crush, which was my goal. So I'm happy with it so far. Very nice. So for the AI, it created something that it called server's salvation, a shift drink tribute to the unsung rituals of the pre-brunch scramble is the tagline. Interesting. Like you said, if nothing else, man, it does a great job at the fluff. It does. It's very, it's very good. So the speck on this was an ounce and a half of vodka, a half an ounce of amaretto, three quarters an ounce of fresh lemon juice, one ounce of sugar packet syrup, and an ounce and a half of chilled still water. So it's a pretty straightforward concoction. The sugar packet syrup, it was combined six sugar packets, approximately one and a half tablespoons with one ounce hot water, stir until dissolved, like cool. It'd yield a little over an ounce, perfect for this cocktail. And then it's everything goes in a shaker tin, shake lightly, strain into a Collins glass over fresh ice, top with an ounce and a half of cold water, stir gently to integrate, garnish with a lemon slice on the rim. And I have to say, I like this. The idea was it said, spear a sugar packet like a cocktail flag. And I said, okay, show me what you mean. Okay. Just because I wanted to make sure I got it right. And what it actually showed me, was like an actual flag. Oh. And so I was like, okay, that's not a cocktail flag, but let's roll with it. So I took the sugar packet and cut it in the shape of this little, uh, triangular point flag, the way it showed it and threw that on. And I was like, well, that's just kind of cute. Yeah. I'm not mad at that. Kitchy, but cute. Yeah. Super kitschy. My mom would love that, so. Right. You know, who doesn't, I mean, it's kind of like putting the umbrella in the cocktail, you know, it's something like, aww. And then you just pull it out and set it aside, you know. Yeah. Nobody cares after the first two seconds. Right, right. I do like the, it says here that the reason for the flag is because this drink is built from brunch battles, which is very relatable if you're in the service industry. I bartend brunches specifically at one of my locations. I love bartending brunch. Oh, I was going to say, I'm sorry for you. No, I love it. Everybody's always like, oh my God, are you okay? I'm like, I live for it. It's great. But it does take a very different personality or type of person. So as we always talk about, when we score cocktails, we have kind of three big buckets of points. The first is the taste bucket, because ultimately, you know, it really comes down to how do these taste? That's a potential 50 points. We have our appearance bucket of points, and that's a potential 30 points. Because, you know, we do like these to look nice. And then originality, that's a potential 20 points. And if we're honest, how often are we creating a whole cloth new cocktail? Not very often. But the judge has had a fair selection of cocktails and likes to see something that looks a little bit fresh and new. So like I said, that's a potential 20 points there. Starting with our taste bucket. The AI scored a total of 42 points for taste. Whereas, Chandler, you scored 42 points for taste. When we looked at the appearance bucket, the AI, 25 points. The human, Chandler, 24 points. When we talk about originality... The AI scored 13 points. And Chandler, for originality, you scored 16 points. To bring your total to 82 points over the AI that just scored 80. Congratulations. You have defeated our AI competitor and clenched victory for the human competitor once again. I was worried because it is a card for my game. I don't usually play my game and lose very often. I was a little concerned. A little concerned. It's good. It's good. Well, you have officially defeated the AI. How's it feel? It feels like I'm not losing my job anytime soon, which is the joke we all make about AI. But no, it feels good. I feel like I had a leg up, though. I don't know if I should have submitted my cocktail with some background if I could have gotten a higher score. But as I said, I think at the beginning of this episode, I think you can always do better. I did preface that I think this is a cocktail I'm going to tweak. But yeah, I'm excited. And I think that in the words of famous poet Bart Simpson, A.R. can eat my shorts. I love the trash talk. So, you know, we always get a little bit of feedback notes from the judge and we always like to share those. So I will say that for the AI, the notes were overall enjoyable and refreshing. Definitely comes across as table made lemonade with a little hint of amaretto. Fun presentation with a sugar packet flag, but doesn't score too high on creativity or uniqueness. And what our judge had to say about your cocktail, Chandler, is that it was overall enjoyable and refreshing. A nice twist with using the fresh mint and the tea, which overall scored you higher points on creativity. I'll take it. Yeah, there were like some other things I thought about doing, but the cocktail, again, I have a problem keeping it simple. And I was like, you got to make this like for mom, because that's like what you wanted to do. Because if I was making it for me, I would have used a different tea. I probably would have used a different herb, but my mother is so herb prejudice. It kills me. Well, I love that this card and this prompt specifically was so personal to you. We did not know that when we were writing the prompt, but I love how that works out. Yeah, that's awesome. And I'm glad that you clinched victory over the AI with something that is so personal to you and your family. Thank you. I am too. Chandler, thank you so much for sitting down with us, telling us a little bit about yourself and your time behind the bar. And congratulations on defeating the AI. Yes. If people want to keep up with you, how can they do that? Yeah. So if you want to follow my shenanigans, just on a personal level, personally and professionally, things I do behind a bar, sometimes in a kitchen or in the weirdness of my own home. That's Instagram at B as in T-H-E, the chef with red shoes. If you buy me a drink, maybe I'll tell you the story behind that. If you're interested in the game, whether you live in the Dallas-Fort Worth area or anywhere else in the country, I try to do events all the time, sometimes in my city, sometimes in other cities. Sometimes I just post things to make you laugh. But that Instagram is at herd, like what you hear, herdcardgame. And if you're interested in looking at any of the wares that I have for sale or buying a deck for yourself, that's herdcardgame.com. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. And with that, that's us signing off saying, drink well. Be well. And remember, shutting the fuck up is gluten-free. Thank you.