Welcome back to Drinking With Robots. I'm your host, Rob Nester. And I'm your host, Ingrid Folkers. On this episode, we sit down to talk about cult classics, from cult classic movies to albums to cocktails. We'll discuss what goes into becoming a cult classic. We'll talk about some of the most well-known ones, as well as our own favorites. A little later, Des Santana from San Antonio, Texas' Amelia Social Lounge. We'll stop by to tell us a little bit about her love of horror movies, how she runs on adrenaline in the service well, and how a band with a one-armed drummer rocked her from an early age. But first, a word from our sponsor. Upgrade your cocktail game with Remedy Cocktail Company's handcrafted bitters. Order online at RemedyCocktailCompany.com and choose from over 20 flavors. Elevate your drink experience today. Cult classic. It's a term that gets thrown around a lot. So much so that it's become difficult to know what it really means. We're starting today's episode by taking a little time to talk about where the phrase comes from and what it truly means. The term cult classic emerged in the 1970s and was originally used to describe a film that had acquired a cult following, a rabid group of fans who are really, and we mean really, into a movie. In fact, this fan base is more than just into the movie. They see themselves as part of a community. Members of these cult followings are typically engaged in repeated viewings, they quote dialogue, and in a lot of cases, they take part in audience participation. They're also often fans of niche, underground, or counterculture content. But these fans didn't just appear out of nowhere, did they? In our current world of 24/7 television stations and streaming anywhere, anytime, it may seem strange to imagine a time when television content was only broadcasted for a few hours in the evening. But that was the television landscape of the late 1940s and early 50s. It wasn't uncommon for stations' broadcast day to start at 6 or 7 p.m. and be wrapped up by 11. Most television content was produced live, and news, variety shows, and local programming dominated the airwaves. This was a time with no reruns and no theatrical movies shown on television. All of this would change in 1953 when SAG, the Screen Actors Guild, that's the labor union that represents actors and other media professionals, created a residuals payment plan. Prior to a residuals payment plan, when actors worked in films or live television, they were paid a one-time fee for their performance. The fee was negotiated as part of their contract, and it was understood to cover the actors' work for that particular production. At that time, the reuse of a performance, whether through reruns, syndication, or later broadcasts, wasn't anticipated as a significant revenue stream. So if for some reason there was a rebroadcast, the money garnered went solely to producers and distributors. With the establishment of residuals, actors would receive payments for every rebroadcast of work they were a part of, either as a fixed rate or as a percentage of revenue. As a result, actors' attitudes shifted toward the reuse of content, and in turn, networks began to incorporate reruns and syndicated programs into their schedules more strategically. One of the key impacts of residuals was the development of midnight movie television content. As we mentioned earlier, it wasn't uncommon in the 1950s for a television station to only broadcast between 6 and 11 p.m. But with the rise of redistribution, local television stations were soon presented with a trove of genre or B-movies they could use to fill up later time slots. These B-movies were low-budget commercial motion pictures, and the term itself originated in the golden age of Hollywood, and it refers to the second half of a double feature, which usually had a lower budget and lower production value. Since these midnight movies were after the safe harbor time, they weren't as heavily subject to FCC regulations of the era. These B-movies were often horror or exploitation films. Now, before you start getting wild ideas about what we mean by exploitation films, this was the 1950s, and the content of nearly all movies, including B-movies, were produced under the constraints of the Motion Picture Production Code, also known as the Hays Act. This set of guidelines strictly regulated content involving sexuality, violence, and moral behavior. Even low-budget B-movies had to adhere to these standards, which meant they couldn't include explicit nudity, overt sexual content, or gratuitous violence. While the B-movies themselves couldn't contain explicit nudity, overt sexual content, or gratuitous violence, what these emerging midnight movie broadcasts did have were fittingly offbeat hosts who played the ghoulish and lurid elements of these B-movies. Hosts would frequently combine theatrical presentation, surreal humor, and unconventional, often absurd commentary, which resonated with the burgeoning audiences. Their roles were to provide context for the movie. You know how some movies are so bad they're good? They made sure the audience knew it. In some instances, they had monologues, skits, and had pseudo-interaction with the viewing audience. It was against the backdrop of these regional midnight movie broadcasts that a generation grew up loving the combination of camp, horror, and B-movie production quality. Against the backdrop of 1970 New York City, the arthouse cinema theaters such as St. Mark's, The Bijou, The Waverly, and The Olympia began midnight screenings of offbeat movies, often serving as the entryway to the national midnight movie circuit. The first of these arthouse midnight movie screenings was for El Topo at the Elgin Theater in the Chelsea neighborhood of New York City, a bohemian and artistic hub of the time. If you've not seen it, and we'll link to the official trailer in the show notes, El Topo is, in a word, weird. It's best described as a surreal acid western, written, scored, directed, and starring Alejandro Jodorowsky that follows a nameless gunslinger on a dual journey of brutal gunfights and mystical quests for enlightenment in a barren desert landscape. It blends shocking violence with rich, symbolic imagery, and the film challenges viewers with its allegorical exploration of redemption and the duality of human nature. Ben Barinholtz, one of the owners of the Elgin, saw El Topo at a private screening at the Museum of Modern Art and found himself fascinated by it, even though many attendees walked out. After failing to secure the American rights to the film, Barinholtz convinced the producers of the film to have the film shown at midnight at the Elgin. On December 18th, 1970, El Topo debuted at the Elgin and ran seven nights a week until the end of June 1971. By 1971, another soon-to-be cult classic had been making the rounds of the art house cinema midnight movie circuit. George Romero's 1968 film, Night of the Living Dead, with its graphic and subversive take on the zombie apocalypse, itself a commentary on the Cold War, nuclear anxiety, conformity, consumerism, along with other social tensions, had solidly entrenched itself as a seminal midnight movie with a cult fandom after being a flop on initial release. The midnight movie concept wasn't limited to just horror or surrealism, however. Both Harold and Maude, as well as The Harder They Come, were early stars of midnight movie showings. Harold and Maude is a dark romantic comedy about Harold, a young man obsessed with death and all things macabre, who finds an unexpected zest for life when he falls for Maude, a spirited and eccentric older woman. The age gap between the characters, it suggested Harold is in his early 20s while Maude is 79, was something that challenged societal norms of the era without a doubt. Harold and Maude was also significant as the first major Hollywood studio film to develop a cult following of repeat viewers. The Harder They Come tells the story of Ivan Martin, a young man from rural Jamaica who moves to Kingston to pursue a music career. Confronted with a corrupt music industry and economic exploitation, he eventually becomes a reluctant outlaw and folk hero, symbolizing resilience against corruption. Both The Harder They Come and Harold and Maude were commercial and critical flops in the United States when they were first released, but were given second chances at life thanks to their midnight movie adoption. It's a good thing in the case of The Harder They Come because it's widely credited with popularizing reggae in the United States. Without a doubt, the most famous of the 70s midnight movies, and my personal favorite, has to be The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Released in 1975 and based on the 1973 musical The Rocky Horror Show, the movie is both a parody of and a tribute to many of the science fiction and horror films that would have been part of that 1950s and 60s wave of television midnight movies. Much like Harold and Maude, and The Harder They Come, initial commercial and critical reception of Rocky Horror was extremely negative. While the mainstream may have shunned it initially, the midnight movie crowd almost immediately fell in love with it. By 1976 in New York City's Waverly Theater, audiences were talking back to the screen, dressing as the cast, and even performing alongside the film as a lip-syncing, miming shadow cast. This level of audience participation wasn't limited to New York City or art house theaters either. By the summer of 1979, Rocky Horror was playing on weekend nights in more than 20 theaters in the New York region alone. As the 1970s drew to a close, the classic art house cinemas of New York had become less financially viable, and their midnight movie showings, which had launched so many films into the larger national circuit began to wane. But their decline didn't mean an end to the midnight movie circuit. Many other movies from mainstream distributors made their way onto the circuit in the late 70s and 80s, going on to be cult classics, including The Warriors, The Evil Dead, Heavy Metal, Repo Man, and Akira. And the tradition of midnight movies becoming cult classics didn't stop there. Films such as Army of Darkness, Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, Donnie Darko, and The Room have joined the ranks of cult classics in the 1990s and 2000s. And films like the Rocky Horror Picture Show have shown amazing staying power as cult classics. Currently, there are 89 listings around the United States for at least once a month showings of the film. So you can definitely find a place to do the time warp again. Speaking of singing along, movies aren't the only place you'll hear the term cult classic. Given any style of music, innumerable, passionate fans will rattle off a seemingly unending list of cult classic albums within it. Much like with movies, there are common elements that contribute to an album becoming a cult classic. Oftentimes, a cult classic album experiments with sound, blending genres in unexpected ways, or it creates or defines a whole new genre. They may be ahead of their time influencing future artists, but initially confusing mainstream audiences. A great example of this is Velvet Underground and Nico by the Velvet Underground. This 1967 album produced by pop artist icon Andy Warhol emerged at a time where the rest of the rock music world was experimenting with complexity, adding tempo shifts, dramatic changes in tone and structure, and incorporating instruments from diverse musical traditions like classical, folk, and Indian music in an attempt to elevate rock to high art. In the face of this, the Velvet Underground was leading a counter-movement towards a more stripped-down, raw, minimalist approach. The album famously employs droning, distorted guitars, experimental feedback, and unconventional percussion, techniques that were groundbreaking in 1967. Band member John Kale's use of electric viola adds eerie, dissonant textures, particularly on songs like Venus in Furs. Tracks like European Sun and Heroin feature abrasive noise and chaotic improvisation, rejecting traditional pop structures in favor of raw, unpredictable energy. The rock critic Lester Bangs once said that modern music starts with the velvets, and artists from David Bowie to Sonic Youth to Nirvana to The Strokes all cite this album as inspiration, particularly for its unapologetic attitude toward breaking musical norms. Brian Eno famously said, "The first Velvet Underground album only sold 10,000 copies, but everyone who bought it started a band." Taking the stripped-down, raw minimalism of the Velvet Underground to even further lengths, Daniel Johnston's 1983 album "Hi, how are you?" has become one of the most quintessential DIY lo-fi cult classics in history. The album was recorded entirely by Johnston on a simple dual cassette recorder in his home in Austin, Texas. The audio quality is raw, noisy, hissing. There are mistakes, abrupt cut-offs, and mic distortions. The instrumentation is minimal, with most songs featuring only vocals and a chord organ, a small keyboard-like instrument. And the song melodies are simple, almost childlike, which adds to their haunting, innocent, sincere atmosphere." Almost 30 years before Chapel Rhone introduced herself as"your favorite artist's favorite artist, Johnston could have done much the same thing. Nirvana frontman and icon of the alternative grunge movement, Kurt Cobain, was photographed wearing a t-shirt featuring the"Hi, how are you?" cover, resulting in a seemingly overnight development of a cult following almost a decade after its release. Speaking about Johnston, Cobain once commented that he just so happened to be the best songwriter on earth, and that "punk rock should mean freedom, liking and accepting anything that you like, playing whatever you want, as sloppy as you want, as long as it's good and has passion." While "Hi, how are you?" was a masterclass in DIY lo-fi production, perhaps one of the strangest production environments was that of the 1969 Captain Beefheart cult classic, "Trout Mask Replica." While the album's combination of avant-garde, freeform blues rock sound is a sure part of its cult classic nature, the bizarre and grueling production of "Trout Mask Replica" added an almost cult-like component to this classic. Before the album was ever recorded, Captain Beefheart forced his band to live together in a rented house in Woodland Hills, California, creating a near cult-like environment. The band lived in complete isolation for eight months leading up to the recording. Beefheart banned outside music, controlling what the band listened to and how they played. Meals were scarce, and sleep deprivation was common. Some members reported only eating one meal a day, usually a small amount of bread and soybeans. It was prohibited for more than one band member to leave the house at a time. Beefheart subjected his bandmates to verbal and psychological abuse, breaking them down emotionally to rebuild them into his artistic vision. He allegedly claimed that he had supernatural powers and could teach them to play instruments without them needing formal training. I've tried to listen to this album and… it's… it's just a tough listen. It would be easy to dismiss it as a train wreck, but the sound of "Trout Mask Replica" is deliberately abrasive. It's anti-commercial and seemingly chaotic, but it is extremely calculated. The guitars often sound out of tune, but they were actually microtonally arranged. Drum parts seemed to be completely disconnected from the rest of the instruments. Beefheart's vocals ranged from grunts to shrieks, howls and growls, often overlapping the beat or ignoring the rhythm entirely. Lyrically, the album veers between abstract poetry, surrealist imagery, and nonsensical word plays such as "Neon Meet a Dream of the Octofish." That's a real title of an album track. Upon release, "Trout Mask Replica" sold very poorly and was widely misunderstood, but in time, it became one of the most influential avant-garde albums ever, cited by artists like Tom Waits, Sonic Youth, The Fall, and PJ Harvey, and it's now considered a masterpiece of experimental rock. While the term "cult classic" may be used in film and music, it's not a term often applied to cocktails. In fact, we both debated on what would even make a cocktail a "cult classic." Many of the cocktails we're going to discuss were popular pre-prohibition, and as they lost mainstream popularity, they kind of fell into the designation of "cult classic" as a "if you know, you know" bit of knowledge. The resurgence of craft cocktail culture has resulted in a fervent audience of cocktail enthusiasts who are passionate about these "cult classics." One of my favorite "cult classics" is a "martinez." I first learned about this cocktail when doing research on the history of the "martini." It sits in this funny little place between the Manhattan and the modern martini, relying on old tom gin, sweet vermouth, and maraschino liqueur. Or dry curacao, depending on where you are in the country. Too right. This cocktail has a rabid following among the "let me tell you something about the martini that you didn't know" crowd. The "martinez" is quite similar to another martini-related cocktail, the "tuxedo," which has its own cult following. This cocktail is originally equal parts old tom gin and dry vermouth, with just a touch of maraschino liqueur, absinthe, and bitters. Over the decades, history has seen this cocktail go through many iterations by either swapping out old tom gin for a dry gin, adjusting the ratio to something other than equal parts, and even the addition of sherry at one point. The inventor of the "tuxedo" also created another cocktail, the "bijou," which is one of the jewels in the "cult cocktail crown." Invented by the father of professional bartending, Harry Johnson, the "bijou" was in equal parts gin, vermouth, and chartreuse. None other than King Cocktail himself, Dale de Groff, rediscovered the "bijou" in the 1980s and adjusted the ratio of gin to vermouth and chartreuse to soften the taste for modern palates. In doing so, he unwittingly created yet another modern cult classic. Another cocktail created at the turn of the 20th century that cocktail enthusiasts are still obsessed with today is the Hanky Panky, originally created by Ada Coley Coleman at the Savoy American Bar in London for actor Sir Charles Hawtree. This cocktail consists of equal parts dry gin, sweet vermouth, and Fournette Branca. The last word was a fast favorite in the 1910s at the Detroit Athletic Club, with vaudeville performer Frank Fogarty being credited with its creation. It's another equal parts cocktail, consisting of gin, fresh lime juice, and green chartreuse. Rediscovered by Murray Stinson in the early 2000s, the cocktail graced the menu of the Zig Zag Cafe in Seattle before becoming a cult classic staple in cocktail bars around the country. I would also argue that the Negroni is the equivalent of the Rocky Horror Picture Show as a cult classic. While it has become more popular than others on the list, it's still not very palatable for the mainstream audience, but it clearly has some devoted fans. The origin of the Negroni is hotly debated, but one thing is for sure. It now has one of the largest cult followings of all time. When it comes down to it, cult classics all do one thing. They provide an avenue for passionate individuals to identify with and commune in celebration of the things that they love. Damn it, Janet. Stick around after the break to see how our guest, Des Santana, does against our AI competitor. Will she have what it takes for victory, or will AI introduce her to their boomstick? Are you a professional bartender who thinks they have what it takes to defeat our AI challenger? If so, we'd love to talk to you. Reach out by sliding into our DMs. We're DrinkingWithRobots on Instagram, or email us at bookings at DrinkingWithRobots.com. Hey, you. Yeah, you. Listening. Right now. Do us a favor. Make sure you've subscribed wherever you're listening to this podcast at, and while you're at it, hop over to Apple or Spotify or any of those kind of places, and leave us a five-star review. If you leave us one, I'll make sure and read it on air. We just wanted to say thank you for listening so far. We'd love for you to connect with us on social media. You can find us at DrinkingWithRobots on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and Threads. While you're at it, go ahead and hit the subscribe button wherever you're listening to this podcast, so you don't miss any future episodes. Also, check us out at DrinkingWithRobots.com. All right. Thanks for sticking with us after the break. Today, we have Dez Santana from San Antonio's own Amelia's Social Lounge. Thank you very much for being with us, Dez. Thank you for having me. Excited. Today's episode is all about cult classics, and we're excited to get to talk to you because you're a horror fan, cult classic fan. Is that right? I love it. It's like white boys, when they go to bed, they have to leave playing in the background. It's like, oh, they're cute. Is it that slow, da-dum, da-dum, kind of soundtrack? Yeah. Honestly, like, John's terrified me as a kid. It still does. I like, I'm one of those that's like, I got somebody to the pool and I think there's a shark and it's like, I don't know why it's a ticket out of my head. Oh, I love it. So, thinking about this, like, have you always been a horror fan or is it something you kind of came into later in life or what? No, it's always when I was a kid. I remember the first movie my mom showed me was Child's Play. Chucky? Yeah. I used to have a little doll in my room when I was a kid. It was like, yeah, I stuck with it. Like, yeah. Wait a minute. And your mom was like, here's your first movie? Yeah, literally. And like, I grew up that way. My first concert was Def Leppard. I feel like I grew up pretty great. I will give you, seeing Def Leppard would have been pretty cool, but I'm just like, having kids of my own. I think the first movie I showed my kids was The Jungle Book. Yeah, no, no. Mine was straight up, like, full throttle. From there on, it was Rosemary's Baby, The Omen, Exorcist. So, your mom is a horror fan, too, then, huh? I would say, like, she's all of the above, but for some reason, I just always got, like, attracted to, like, horror. I don't know why. Like, I think it was just the plot twist, like, some of the based-on true stories. Because I'm one of those, like, based-on true stories, like, that's cool. Like, you know, I get stuck into a rabbit hole. I'll start Googling stuff, and there I am on TikTok. And, like, hours later, days later, I've been stuck to something. Like, it's just mind-blowing sometimes for me. I'm assuming you're a true crime podcast fan. No. No? No, I... Oh, I'm shocked. When it comes to, like, podcasts, I'm more of, like, stand-up. Like, I love Bad Friends. Bobby Lee, love that. So, I'm more of, like, the comedy side for podcasts and for movies. It's always, like, horror. Like, you know, the gushier, the better. I have to proclaim. I'm a big softie inside, man. I'm just not... I've just never been a big horror fan. And I think part of it is going back, thinking about childhood experiences. I would say one of the first, like, scary movies I ever saw. I was doing a sleepover at one of my uncle's houses, and his kids were, you know, late teens, early 20s. So, he didn't think anything about, you know, what he would have on television. And I was, like, seven, and sitting there, and he turned on The Serpent and the Rainbow, which is... Oh, I'm trying to... Clive Barker. I haven't seen that in a long time. Yeah, you know, it's all about, like, voodoo and zombies and, you know, all this kind of stuff. And I'm just, like... I remember going home. I had, like, nightmares for, like, two days, you know? I was, like, this is not cool. I was, like... Even now, like, as an adult, like, watching horror films, I have such a, like, high expectation. Like, Hereditary was the last one, and then Longly was, like, the really last one that just, like, messed with me. Like, and then The Contrary, like, when I first saw that, I remember sleeping with the lights on for, like, a week. And I was just, like, oh, shit, this is real. Like, you know, this is happening. Like, this has happened in the past, and this is still kind of going on. And so, you know, I need something to really, like, mentally, like, mess with me for me to be, like, oh, this is great. So, Ingrid, are you a horror fan? I am not. I never really learned to appreciate the genre in and of itself. I mean, I'll watch it, but I think I'm not, you know, enjoying it on the same level as it does. I'm, like, I'm a little too much. Well, because, you know, the last thing that she said made me think about the fact that, like, it's an adrenaline-producing event, right? Watching horror, you know, it gets your heart pumping, you know, that kind of thing. And how much, I do wonder how much of that is, like, oh, being behind the bar, fast-paced, heart pumping, getting things done. Is there, you know, is there some sort of, you know, carryover between those two? Yeah, no, 100%. Like, last weekend, it was Saturday, and it was on service ball. And I had 14 tickets print up with, like, five to six cocktails on there. And then I had another eight behind that printing on the prayer, and I'm just there, like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, with my head down. And then by the end of it, like, I sure were putting my middle, because I closed, and I stood my middle fingers up, and I was, like, fuck yeah, like, I did that. And you'd just be, like, oh, my God, like, what's next? And everyone's, like, we closed the bar. And I'm, like, damn, like, oh, I just keep going, like, they're just, like, no. Because if you would think, you know, on service ball, like, I'd be the one that's just, like, okay, we've done. Definitely think there are a lot of bartenders that do love the horror genre, and it is because of that same similarity of being in the weeds and getting that adrenaline going. Are you an adrenaline junkie outside of the horror genre? Do you do any, are you a skydiver, do anything like that? Nope, absolutely not. Like, no, I'm, like, I'm not, like, terrified of heights, but I'll be one of those, like, tipping on the edge, like, oh, absolutely not. Like, I've seen Final Destination, like, I'm not dumb. Like, no. See, then I'm over here, like, I wouldn't want to, you know, I'm not a horror movie fan, but I would jump out of a perfectly good airplane, like, three times a week if I could. I wanted to, trust me, like, the thought has been there. But I'm one of those, I'm like, give me a shot first, and then I'll do it. But, like, no. People that do that, I'm like, dude, how? Teach me your ways. Right. So, not an adrenaline junkie outright. Do you have any other hobbies or anything that really gets your adrenaline going? I think, it's always just been, like, working out, um, I love documentaries. Like, love it. Like, it's that, just, like, just watching stuff like that, again, getting into the rabbit hole. Like, I remember watching, oh, there was a documentary on, I think it was at the time, Jeffrey Dahmer. Like, you know, I mean, that's, like, that's so, like, because of crime stuff, like, podcasts, I guess it's more documentary. Like, that stuff is so interesting to me. I am obsessed with watching, like, right now I'm watching Superman. I can't pull myself to watch the last season. I can't, because somebody watched it up for me and told me what happened. And I'm like, dude. Oh, that's cruel. I know. So, I'm still, you know, watching that. I guess, like, my, really, like, my adrenaline is, like, reading about cocktails and watching other cocktails. And I'm obsessed with it now, especially being in the industry and now working with a company that is, they're called Only One Hospitality. So, not only does the bartender need to have that knowledge of the cocktails, but the hospitality that is attached to it. But you can serve a cocktail at any day, left and right. And with that second, it's, like, it kind of loses its touch. Like, well, why do you like that? Well, I like the interaction. I like the networking. I like teaching somebody how I like my aneurysm and stuff like that. So, that kind of gets my adrenaline going. It's just learning the cocktail from the side as well. It's not just, like, working out. What led you to being behind the bar? Was it a calling kind of thing? Were you always, like, oh, this is something I want to do? Or was it, uh, somehow I ended up doing this and it kind of worked? Or what? Tell me a little bit about that. It was, I was just, I just turned 21. I remember working in retail. And I had called one of my friends, his name is Tito. And then San Antonio, he was very involved in the industry at the time. Unfortunately, he just passed away. And, uh, I remember I called him just kind of, like, breaking down, having, like, a mental breakdown. I'm like, do this anymore. I hate my job. I'm, like, literally about to walk out right now. I can't do it. I hate it. I hate retail. And he was like, well, my friends, we're opening up this restaurant. Like, they need a host. Like, if you want to try to get your foot in the door, like, the industry is always thinking it's great. And I was like, you know what? Anything's better than that. I remember not knowing how to host. So, I Googled it. And I was like, oh, it's easy. I could do that. So, I remember sitting there, going in there, and I remember sitting down my first night and hearing the bartenders, like, talk about a cocktail. And I just remember turning around and staring at them and just seeing how, like, you know, they were trying something, and then they were sipping it, and then they were smelling it. And they're like, oh, this will screw up with it. Just seeing how their brains work, which is just, like, honestly, to me, it was a turn-on. So, I was like, that's cool. Like, they're so involved in something. Like, they're infatuated. Their brains are clipped and everything's turning. Like, it was great for me. And what really did it for me is I asked someone that was working with me at that time there. I had asked him, I was like, hey, like, what was the specific kind of bar? Like, what can I start making this path toward? Like, what can I do? And he was just like, well, we hired you to be pretty. So, that's what's up. So, for that, that got to me, like, okay, all right. And then, sure enough, I had been there for a week. Within three years, I ended up, not even sticking foot behind the bar still, and I ended up being the restaurant manager and bar manager. And then, from there on, I finally got involved in my first cocktail program, which was SACP. I think it was back in 2016, 2017. I can't really remember back then. And networking with people and just trying all these different portfolios of, like, vodka, tequila, whiskey, everything. And then, from there, it really just started. So, I was like, you know what? I can do this. Like, I'm great in talking to people. I'm great at networking. I love everything about who's talked to. And I have experience now. So, I love it in a certain sense. Like, I think just being told, like, you're just sitting there to be pretty. You're just amazed. Kind of really lit a fire for me to want to be more involved and, you know, show that I could do the job. A big motivator is saying, no, you can't do that. It's like, oh, yes, I can. Yeah. And to turn off, I'm very, I'm a lot more successful and I have a lot more under my belt now. So, it's kind of like, I've always, at first, I was like, you know, I have something to prove. And now, it's just like, I know, like, my work ethic, my reputation says a lot about myself. And being able to do stuff like this podcast is, you know, getting my name out in a way and staying where I really am is kind of a way to do it. Yeah, I'll be doing it, yeah. Well, it is one of the things we love about running this podcast is having an opportunity to talk to folks and find out who they are and what they're all about. You know, the competitions of, we try and keep it fun. It's, you know, one of the things that we've done, I think, a decently good job at is focusing on kind of oddball prompts and topics to be like, here's something that you're not going to get in a normal competition. And you're also not trying to compete against other real bartenders, which I think is just always kind of a, meh, kind of thing. I hate bartender versus bartender competitions. I don't think they do a really good job at capturing. I feel like it's lacked that a little bit recently. Like, when I grew up in the industry, it was not bartender against bartender. It was always just like, hey, like, you're doing this this way. Like, instead of it, like, let me give you, like, you know, even with the guests, it was very friendly back then. And I feel like it's kind of lost a little bit of, like, you know, the industry always, always felt to me, like, one big happy giving, as cheesy as that sounds. But it is because sometimes these people become your lifelong friends. Like, you know, for me doing camp and, like, from first starting to bartend, like, I've known these people for about 10 years. And they're friends that have gone to their weddings and not being a kid, the whole family, like, it's beautiful and it's bright. It just always felt like it needed to stay there. Now, you're in San Antonio, correct? Mm-hmm. Are you born and raised in San Antonio? My group in Bernie, Texas, is just a little, like, maybe like 25, 30 minutes away from San Antonio. So basically, yeah. Gotcha. And you've been there basically your whole career, correct? Yeah, my whole career. I loved it. Have you gotten to travel to any places that have influenced your cocktails? Definitely New York. Definitely New York. I remember going when I was 23 and just seeing how they were working and their bar programs are just way more intense and just not that it's continuous, but it's just there's bars around there that have been around for, like, a long time, like, you know, so. Death and Co., and then Martini, Nomad, and one of my favorite, favorite bars I always try to go to every time in New York, Smith & Nose, which they just, I believe, opened up one in Rockefeller. And so I remember walking into the tribe, and just being blown away with how such a beautiful bar and small and intimate meeting the bar manager at the time was just like, you know, and at the time I was just serving him for me, which is like, oh, like, where are you? And I'm like, yeah, like, you know, I served, da, da, da, and it was just that hospitality handshake was just amazing, just watching him work and great. I love, in New York, I love going to McSorley's and Amari and Margo. McSorley's just because the atmosphere is so great, you know, sit down, grab two beers, you're ready to go. And then Souther Teague is an amazing person for popularizing Amari the way he has and making it, you know, I think he's, you know, obviously one of the people who's put Amaro on the map for a lot of cocktail makers. And that room is just such a great room to go into and kind of think about, like, everybody who's passed through there. Yeah. Now, on that vein, do you have a favorite Amaro or a favorite liqueur or something that you often gravitate towards when you're creating cocktails? Or it could just be a spirit of some kind that you gravitate towards? I've always gravitated towards Aperol and tequila, but I've tried to, I mean, I'm a tequila girl all the way. So I've tried to stray away from that and really mess and kept with different spirits, like, at least now it's weekly gin and cognacs. Because I'm not too familiar with cognacs and, like, I've never been, like, a huge fan. But, like, again, like, getting into the school, I'm like, ooh, like, okay, like, a side part is great. Like, it's so good. It's refreshing. And, you know, and then getting into gin, I've noticed I love it. I love a good east side. I'm a sucker for a east side. But, yeah, like, leaves just been. I remember being in New York and having an Aperol and I was like, ooh, you know, this is like, ooh, I'm feeling like in Italy, this is great. But, yeah, Aperol is one of those. I just feel like it's a lot. I've heard mixed with some two bartenders, like, it's one of those, like, it's kind of hard for them to work with, just because, you know, you already have your Aperol Spritz. It only goes in a Spritz, but, you know, you also have the naked and famous. It goes great with this now. So, that's been one that I really like to mess with a lot because, again, I feel like cocktails, mythology, cocktails, being a bartender, you know, you guys have to let it somehow, some way. Yeah, Aperol was definitely the gateway for Campari when I first started. It was like, oh, that's a little much, but, you know, let's dial that Negroni down and make it into a Contessa and then I'm happy, you know. And then I was like, yeah, that Campari back there. Well, I think that's a pretty common thing, especially in the drinks world. I mean, you talk about, like, developing your palate for wine, right? That's a pretty common discussion. You start with the sweeter, then you work towards drier, then you go more full-bodied. I think it's the same thing when we're talking about spirits or especially on the bitter side of cordials. Definitely, I think Aperol is a stepping stone for Campari. I 100% agree with you. Yeah, no, and I love it. Like, a lot of people, I mean, even with, I mean, on my bar, like, at my bar, we have a jungle bird on the menu. A lot of people just aren't, like, a huge guy with Campari because it's just, like, really bitter. But I'm like, we just have to pair it as well. Like, you gotta dial down some kind of citrus or, like, up some kind of sugar or, like, mixture just to, like, have a compliment to it. Like, I don't think it's, like, a bad one or, like, it's just you have to find a middle ground for it. So, you mentioned being a tequila girl. Let's jump into this. We're based in North Carolina. So, tequila selections here can be, sometimes you'll run across a bottle and you're like, oh, yay, we have this now. And then for every time you do that, you're like, oh, well, we don't have that anymore. I imagine you're kind of overrun with choices being in Texas. What's your go-to? Give us, like, your top three of, like, you know, these are the three bottles of tequila that I want on my back bar all the time. What would you go for? I would say, for sure, Molo, of course. Second would have to be the Jose Cremolo Nutritional. Great. I feel like it's so underrated. And third, it's kind of hard. I feel like a lot of brands have been adding on the movie and just have a really good thing. But I would probably say, dang, that is tough. I don't know. Well, I have to say up here, our choices are a little more limited, by and large. But I love things like Siete Legos. If you've had that one, then, yeah, it's a nice added free. Which, by the way, the fact that the CRT made Tequila Matchmaker pull down that list, that drives me nuts. Oh, I know. I'm like, where? Like, why? Yeah. Well, you know, all of the money. Yeah. And I'll also say that La Gratona has been one that I've really enjoyed. If you've or if you're not familiar with it. I don't even have that one. I seem to have it tried. Yeah. I'd actually really recommend that. I like that a lot. It straddles the line between a Blanco and a Repo really well. It's technically a Repo, but it works pretty much anywhere that I've seen it used. Definitely great for cocktailing. You can sip it. You can shoot it. You can do. It's kind of an all-purpose tequila that's really tasty. And a female distiller in Mexico as well. Okay, nice. Yeah, yeah. Love that. All right. So, you know, the first part of the show, we talked all about cult classic films. And you're a self-admitted horror fanatic, as we talked about. I want to know your, give me your top three cult classics throughout the history of the genre. And give me just a quick blurb on why you think each one is a cult classic. Like, what is it about it that does it for you? Okay. So, give me all genres. I think first would be, because it's kind of like, it was in the 80s. And for the, like, PGR technology that it had back then, it was a lot of the 80s. Killer Clowns from outer space. It was, like, quote-unquote horror. I've been obsessed. Like, I love it. I think I watch it a lot, like, during Halloween and any time of the year. The animatronics of it, great. The soundtrack, so good. And, like, just to kind of push the limits with a dirty joke. It was the guy that drive the ice cream truck, the Brothers. That was funny. Love that. And then another cult classic. I would probably say, again, Child's Life. I feel like just now, even just having the spin-off that Chuckie had now at the show, it just doesn't really do it justice. But I get it. Like, it's still sticking around. And then probably Scream. I've heard, like, left and right. I love Ghostface. I love the whole trilogy of, like, Scream. Even now, because you have four films, like, Final Destination. It's just, like, at that point, it's like, when is it going to end? Like, it's just, I get it. It's like you almost want to know its final destination. Exactly. You know, like, it's The Walking Dead, too. I'm like, I'm over it. But I feel like Scream has always stuck to the original. Like, it does that playing on, like, being a typical, like, oh, this is what happens in a horror film. You know, you don't go in the house by yourself. But, you know, like, Scream has always kind of played around with, like, joking on it. But it still sucks its originality. Well, knowing what your top three cult classic films would be, we thought it would be a fun thing to have you and your AI competitor put a spin on your favorite cult classic cocktail. Would you like to start us off by speaking to what you chose to do? Tell us what your cult classic cocktail was. And then give us a rundown on the ingredients, a basic spec on this cocktail that you've prepared for this competition. So I chose what was, I mean, Corpse Survivor 2. I love that, you know, the abstinence, chef's kiss. Like, it's good. A lot of people don't appreciate it. But definitely loved it. And then, you know, having the Corpse Survivor 1, which was with Cognac, I kind of wanted to stay in that kind of realm and mess with something that I haven't messed with before. So I recently had, like, my allergies were really bad. I ended up having some ginger gum. And I was like, oh, crap, this is going to be so good. When I was talking with you guys, and I was like, something was ginger. And then that came in to play with Cognac. And then I was like, ooh, maybe, like, a sidecar kind of thing. But I still wanted to stay with the Corpse Survivor. So I ended up doing a lemon orange cordial. Never really made a cordial. And I was like, cool, like, let me make it mix. So I did a lemon orange. Did a little Cochise Blanco. And then ended up doing Cognac. And then I ended up doing egg white. I feel like egg white, in time, we have kind of, like, funky ingredients together. It kind of helps find that middle ground for all the ingredients. It helps find that, like, center. So I've always loved that. And I wanted to incorporate ginger in that. So I did a ginger rinse instead of doing a spray on top. Or, like, sorry. I'm sorry. It's a abstinence rinse. So, and then I feel like the meat is more of, like, a kick in the ass. So I definitely, actually, that's why I put that desk in the play on top of the egg white. You get that smell. You get that taste. The oils, I feel like, just are, like, terrible. Absolutely. Do you have a name for your cocktail? I believe I called it the Mommy Royale. I have an Instagram name that I've had for, like, since I was 22. Again, having to, like, find my voice in this industry and stand my ground as a female in this industry. They used to call me, like, they're, like, oh, are you being so salty? Or, like, Mommy, you know, sometimes they'd be, like, Mommy. So that's where Salt Mommy came into play. I've been Salt Mommy for a long time now. So I wanted to incorporate myself and me being, like, you know, I'm finally in my adulthood. I feel like my 30s or my adulthood, I feel like your 20s are, like, you're still kind of a kid. So being 31 now, I'm kind of like, well, this is my introduction to the world. I'm like, hello. So the Mommy Royale became the thing. On the other side, we had the AI, and their cult classic that they chose was the last word. They created a cocktail that they called the, and this is so hokey, I'm disappointed in AI for this one, the Final Whisper. And, yeah, so, yeah, it was, you know, last word, Final Whisper. My mind went immediately to kill us whisper. Well, so for this, what they did was they combined London Dry Gin, Strega, which this is actually, I think, the first time we've ever had Strega in a cocktail on the show, so that's been fun. Luxardo Maraschino Liqueur, a little bit of fresh lemon juice and some orange bitters. Basically, it's, you know, combine, shake, double strain to a chilled coupe, express the lemon peel over the top, and that's it. So it's a fairly straightforward cocktail. The Strega, you know, that's kind of a saffron liqueur, you know, hints of saffron and mint, juniper, can be an alternative to green chartreuse. But I don't know. I'm picky about that, I guess. That's a saffron liqueur, in a sense. Because, I mean, sometimes, whenever, you know, the monks do take a break, like, chartreuse is allocated. Especially, you know, green chartreuse, for 10 years old. So, I mean, Strega would be, like, the good, like, comparable, I guess, you could say. Yeah, I just keep a couple of extra bottles of green chartreuse in the cabin around here. Oh, 100%. Like, you have to. Even with the EP, like, you have to. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, so then, that was a fairly modern twist on the last word. They say it maintains the original's balanced structure while introducing new herbal dimensions and a softer citrus character, creating a cocktail that is both familiar and intriguingly novel. So, that's what we've got for this episode. So, let's take a second and we'll talk about our scores and kind of run through those. As you know, we've got kind of three separate buckets of points. First is taste. Second would be presentation. And third would be originality. Out of 50 points for taste, you scored 43 points. For presentation, out of 30 points, you scored 24. And for originality, out of 20 points, you scored 17. So, all very respectable scores, giving you a total of 84. The AI scored a total of 46 points for taste. For presentation, it scored a total of 23 points. And for originality, it scored 13 points. Now, if you're good at math, that totals 82. So, you were able to defeat the AI? Congratulations. Congratulations. Woo! I feel like I can retire now. Well, I will say, you know, we have kind of seen some, I would say, some interesting upsets this season. You know, AI is, I think, less of a slouch than some people anticipate. Yeah, I'm ready for the day, like, you guys have somebody on with that. She's a Malört. Well, we've had a Malört episode. Oh! Yeah. It was actually the dive bar episode. Okay, I need to listen to that one. Well, Des, thank you so much for sitting down with us and going head-to-head against our AI competitor. If people want to follow you, how can they keep up with you? Through Instagram. It's going to be saltmami, S-A-L-T-M-A-M-I. And if they want to follow my employer, it's a great bar. Please, if you're a fan, can you, like, come around Amelia's social lounge. It's going to be Amelia S-A-T-X, I believe. But yeah, that's more than free. A lot of the DMs, don't be weird. Well, awesome. Well, with that, that's going to be us signing off for this episode, saying drink well. Be well. Sleep well.