Welcome back to another episode of Drinking With Robots. I'm your host Rob Nester. And I'm your host Ingrid Folkers. On today's episode, we're diving into cryptids. From Bigfoot to the Chupacabra, we'll explore the histories, sightings, and stories behind these elusive entities. A little later, Walker Roberts from Raleigh's own Foundation Bar will sit down with us to talk about his favorite cryptids, paranormal explorations, and how limiting your spirit palate can lead to making magic. But first, a word from our sponsor. Upgrade your cocktail game with Remedy Cocktail Company's handcrafted bitters. Order online at RemedyCocktailCompany.com and choose from over 20 flavors. Elevate your drink experience today. On this episode of the podcast, we're talking about cryptids. Now, you may be wondering what is a cryptid? Well, a cryptid is a creature or a being that cryptozoologists believe may exist somewhere in the wild, but whose existence hasn't been proven. A cryptozoologist is someone who studies animals that are considered legendary or unproven. But isn't cryptozoology a pseudoscience like ancient astronauts or the flat earth theory? Well, it is sort of, but we'll discuss that in more detail later. For now, let's dive into one of the most well-known cryptids of all time, Bigfoot. Sightings of Bigfoot have occurred all across the United States from Florida, where the creatures are known as the skunk ape, to Virginia, where they're known as wood boogers. And in the Pacific Northwest, one of the biggest hotbeds of sightings, the creature is known as Sasquatch. The word Sasquatch is actually an anglicized version of the word Sasquiettes, which comes from the language of the indigenous people who inhabited the northwestern United States and southwestern Canada. If you're not familiar with it, you're probably wondering, what is Bigfoot exactly? Most accounts describe the creature as a large, muscular, human or ape-like creature who walks upright and is covered in black, dark brown or dark reddish hair. Anecdotal reports from both indigenous cultures and early American settlers have the creature ranging from six foot to nine foot tall, with some describing it even taller at 10 to 15 feet. While there are tales of Bigfoot-like creatures throughout history, one thing we know for certain is when and where the name Bigfoot came from. In 1958, Jerry Crew was a bulldozer operator for a logging company in Humboldt County, California. One day, he spotted what appeared to be a set of human-like footprints deep in the mud of the Six Rivers National Forest, where his logging crew were working. These footprints were huge, 16 inches in length. To give you a bit of reference, the average length of a man's foot is 10.6 inches long. When Jerry told his co-workers about these huge footprints, they weren't surprised. They recounted seeing similar footprints on previous job sites in the area. They told him further stories about how they would find very heavy oil drums moved with no explanation. It was at this moment in time that Jerry and his co-workers began using the word Bigfoot to describe the would-be culprit. After seeing more of these footprints, Jerry reached out to Andrew Ginzoli, a reporter at the Humboldt Times newspaper. After interviewing Crew and other lumber workers, Ginzoli wrote an article about the massive footprints and introduced the name Bigfoot in relation to the tracks, as well as other local tales of large, hairy wild men. A picture's worth a thousand words, and so it was that a picture of Jerry Crew holding a plaster cast of the massive footprint graced the front page of the Humboldt Times on October 6th, 1958. It didn't take long for the New York Times and the Los Angeles Times to get in touch, and as a result, the name Bigfoot swept the nation and was on everyone's lips. Now, before we get too carried away, it's important to point out that in 2002, the family of one of Jerry Crew's deceased co-workers, a guy named Ray Wallace, revealed to the world that Ray had a collection of large, carved wooden feet stored in his basement. Apparently, it was Ray who had been secretly making the footprints around the job sites that Jerry had discovered. Ray Wallace was from Toledo, Washington. This fact is important because it turns out that Ray knew and was inspired by another hoaxer, Grant Mullins. In 1982, Mullins revealed a bunch of information about hoaxes he had committed in the 1920s and 30s. Mullins claimed that he and a few other folks were responsible for the Ape Canyon incident which occurred in 1924. Mullins stated that he and a companion, George Ross, rolled some rocks onto a cabin along the so-called Ape Canyon on Mount St. Helens and may have been responsible for Fred Beck's legendary Bigfoot encounter. That story has a number of highly questionable aspects to it, by the way. In the story, Beck and others claim to have had their cabin attacked by ape men. Later in the 1930s in Toledo, Washington, Mullins and a group of other lumber workers carved pairs of large feet out of wood and used them to create footprints in the mud to scare huckleberry pickers in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest. Ray Wallace's family said that he collaborated with Grant Mullins to obtain a pair of the large wooden feet used in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest and subsequently used them to create the footprints on the 1958 construction site as a means to scare away potential thieves. This reminds me a bit of the folks in England with crop circles, but maybe that's a topic for another episode. Regardless, back in the late 1950s and early 1960s, Bigfoot fever was in full effect and articles about Bigfoot were showing up in various magazines and newspapers. Bigfoot would appear in books like Ivan Sanderson's 1961 publication, Abominable Snowmen, Legend Come to Life, which related tales from around the world of Bigfoot type creatures. It was that book which would encourage filmmaker Roger Patterson to explore the areas of Bluff Creek, California and the Six Rivers National Forest. On October 20th, 1967, Roger and his partner Bob Gimlin would capture footage that show a figure, which they claim to be a Bigfoot walking through the forest, turning to look at the camera. Despite extensive analysis and debate, the authenticity of the footage remains disputed. Yeah, there's just a lot that makes me skeptical about that footage. Patterson visited the area many times between 1962 and 1966, and he spoke with a number of local Bigfoot believers. Supposedly, at some point, he found fresh Bigfoot tracks, and this is what led him to hope to capture film footage of a Bigfoot. In May and June of 1967, he started filming some weird sort of pseudo-documentary, which was about cowboys being led by an old miner and a wise Indian tracker on a hunt for Bigfoot. This seems like a really weird movie. Agreed. So Patterson had gotten money from investors to start filming and had completed some portion of it, and he and his partners were trying to attract more investors and funds to complete the film, but they weren't having much luck. All of this makes me think that this footage was likely a hoax. It just seemed a little too convenient that he set out to make a documentary about Bigfoot, a pseudo-documentary, no less, and stumbled upon an actual Bigfoot. Patterson definitely got the fame he was looking for, though. The Patterson-Gimlin film, as it became known, would go on to be featured in almost every television show and film that discussed Bigfoot for the rest of the 20th and 21st century. Since the 1960s, Bigfoot has been featured in various films, cartoons. Oh, God, that reminds me. There's a movie and a follow-on sitcom from when I was a kid called Harry and the Hendersons, where Bigfoot ends up living with a suburban family. You grew up in some really weird times. Bigfoot is also featured in television, notably as a subject of reality and paranormal television series, with notable examples being Finding Bigfoot, Mountain Monsters,$10 million Bigfoot Bounty, Expedition Bigfoot, and Alaskan Killer Bigfoot. You know, I find this interesting that with all of these shows, there's never been any sort of viable, verifiable evidence of their existence. Yeah, I am very much a skeptic on this one. Yeah, as much as Sasquatch is probably a big, lovable guy if he's out there, I don't buy it. Moving across the Atlantic Ocean, we come to the Loch Ness Monster, affectionately known as Nessie. This aquatic cryptid is said to inhabit Loch Ness in the Scottish Highlands. Descriptions of Nessie vary, but Nessie is often depicted as a large, long-necked creature with one or more humps protruding from the water. The first recorded sighting dates back to the 6th century, when Irish monk St. Columba reportedly encountered a water beast in the River Ness. While there were two supposed sightings in the late 1800s, the modern Nessie legend really began in May 1933. A report was published in the Inverness Courier that detailed a sighting by Aldi McKay and her husband John of a giant creature in the loch. A second sighting in July by George Spicer and his wife really sparked public interest when it was published in the Courier in August. It is interesting to note that in August 1933, King Kong was a newly popular film in Spicer's home of London, England. Why is that interesting, you may ask? Because the film features a sea creature that almost exactly matches Spicer's description. That second report also sparked a huge uptick in public sightings of Nessie. The story was widely covered in the press, and it wasn't long after that that the infamous surgeon's photograph was published. The photo, supposedly taken by Robert Kenneth Wilson, a local gynecologist who didn't want his name attached to the photo, appeared to show a long-necked creature emerging from the water. For almost 60 years, the photo was considered evidence of Nessie's existence for cryptozoologists. The 1999 book, Nessie, The Surgeon's Photograph Exposed, laid out the web of events that led to the 1934 photograph and exposed it as a hoax. In the 1920s and 30s, Marmaduke Arnodal, M.A. for short, Wetherall, was many things. A screenwriter, a producer, a director, and a silent movie actor. But most importantly for this story, he was a big game hunter. Man, the British in the 1930s were classy, weren't they? Right. Anyway, in the 1930s, Wetherall went to Loch Ness to look for the Loch Ness monster. He claimed to have found footprints, but when casts of the footprints were sent to scientists for analysis, they turned out to be from a hippopotamus. Yeah, that's right. A prankster had used a hippopotamus foot umbrella stand to make fake footprints of Nessie. As a result of this prank, Wetherall was publicly ridiculed by his employer, the Daily Mail. This public ridicule led Wetherall to formulate his revenge on the Daily Mail. Wetherall enlisted the help of his son-in-law, Christian Sperling, who built a toy submarine and sculpted that famous neck and head atop of it out of wood putty. Wetherall's son, Ian, took the photos, and Wetherall enlisted insurance agent, Maurice Chambers, to pass the photographic plates along to Chambers' friend, Robert Wilson, the surgeon. Wilson had the photographic plates developed and sold the first of the two photos that were taken to the Daily Mail, who then announced that the monster had been photographed. But how is it revenge if no one knew for almost 60 years? Well, they do say it's a dish best served cold. Despite the revelation of the hoax, the Loch Ness Monster has remained a popular subject of speculation and investigation. Numerous sonar surveys and underwater expeditions have been conducted, but definitive evidence still remains elusive. Still, sightings continue to be reported, keeping the legend of Nessie alive. Traveling back across the Atlantic, this time we're headed to Latin America to discuss chupacabras. This cryptid is said to attack livestock, particularly goats, and drink their blood. Its name, chupacabra, literally translates to goat sucker in Spanish. Reports of the chupacabra first began to circulate in Puerto Rico in the mid-1990s. In March of 1995, the first reported attack attributed to the chupacabra involved eight sheep found dead, each with three puncture wounds in the chest area and reportedly drained of blood. By August of the same year, attacks had escalated and there had been as many as 150 farm animals and pets killed by an unknown predator in and around the town of Canvanus. Reports from locals claiming to have seen the creature described them swooping down from the sky and leaping over treetops. It was in the fall of 1995 that the first detailed eyewitness descriptions of the chupacabras emerged. An alleged eyewitness described the creatures as resembling a reptilian kangaroo with large red eyes, spikes along its back, and hairy arms. Supposedly, the creature broke into her home, tore apart a child's teddy bear, and left a puddle of slime along with a single piece of rancid meat on the windowsill before disappearing. By the end of 1995, over 1,000 animal deaths had been attributed to the chupacabras by residents of Puerto Rico. Over the next few years, reports of similar animal deaths began to emerge from places such as Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Peru, and the United States. In these later reports, the descriptions of the chupacabra shifted from reptilian kangaroos to smaller four-legged creatures resembling dogs, but with leathery hides. One particularly interesting chupacabra report occurred in 2007, when a rancher in Texas named Phyllis Canyon claimed to have found the carcass of a chupacabra on her property. The creature had blue-gray skin, pronounced fangs, and was unlike any animal she had ever seen. DNA tests later identified the animal as a coyote with mange. So, it's interesting, once again, to note that there's a movie tie-in here. In July of 1995, the action-horror-sci-fi thriller Species was released. This movie was filmed partially in Puerto Rico, and in the movie, the character of Sil transforms from a woman into a beast whose appearance bears an uncanny resemblance to the initial description of the chupacabra. Despite the fact that there has never been a verified report of the creature, and despite the fact that none of the animals, which were claimed to have been drained of blood, underwent a necropsy to determine how much blood they contained after death, reports of the chupacabras persist, and the legend continues. Remember earlier when I mentioned that cryptozoology is kind of a pseudoscience? Yeah. So, the reason I said kind of is that while many cryptids remain the stuff of legend, there have been instances where creatures which were once thought to be mythical or fantastical were later discovered to be real. Some examples of that are the okapi, which is known as the African unicorn. It's a relative of the giraffe with a long neck and striped legs, and it wasn't discovered until 1901 by Sir Harry Johnston after being known in local folklore. Then we have the coelacanth, which is a prehistoric fish that was thought to be extinct for 66 million years, until a living specimen was found off the coast of South Africa in 1938. We've also got the Komodo dragon, which was originally only rumored to exist on Indonesian islands. It was officially described by Western scientists in 1910. Also, the giant squid, which was known from maritime folklore. It was confirmed through captured specimen and video footage in the late 20th and early 21st centuries. And then we have the platypus. And as you can imagine, if you've ever seen one, it was considered a hoax when it was first described. But it was confirmed as real by naturalists in 1799. Then there's the mountain gorilla, which was considered just a rumor in Africa until it was confirmed in 1902 by German explorer Captain Robert von Bering. The Salah, also referred to as the Asian unicorn, was only known locally in Vietnam and Laos before it was discovered by scientists in 1992. Even the kangaroo was originally thought to be a beast of fantasy. Early reports by European explorers were met with skepticism until confirmed by Captain James Cook's crew in 1770. And then there's the Bandigizu, which is a forest-dwelling marsupial. And it looks a bit like a small man covered in black and white fur. It's a tree climber, but it's often seen in a bipedal, standing upright position. It was known to local tribes in Papua New Guinea, but it wasn't confirmed to exist until 1894. And then there's the giant panda. Rumors of the panda were confirmed in 1869 by French missionary Armand David. These examples show that while some cryptids may seem like pure fantasy, others turn out to be real creatures that were simply unknown to the Western world for a long time. True. Encryptids, whether real or imagined, captivate our curiosity and keep the spirit of adventure alive. From the forests of the Pacific Northwest to the lakes of Scotland, from Latin America to Southeast Asia, these mysterious creatures remind us that the world still holds many secrets waiting to be discovered. Absolutely, Rob. And who knows? Maybe one day we'll find actual, verifiable evidence of these elusive beings. Until then, they remain a fascinating part of our folklore and a testament to the human love for mystery and the unknown. After the break, we'll sit down with Walker Roberts of Raleigh, North Carolina's own foundation. He's stopping by to tell us all about his favorite cryptids. And we'll find out if his cocktail for this episode has what it takes for victory or if he'll be left drained by our AI competitor. Stick around to find out. Are you a full-time professional bartender who thinks they have what it takes to defeat our AI challenger? If so, we'd love to talk to you. Reach out to us by sliding into our DMs, we're drinkingwithrobots on Instagram, or emailing us at bookings at DrinkingWithRobots.com. Hey, you. Yeah, you. Listening right now. Do us a favor. Make sure you've subscribed wherever you're listening to this podcast at. And then while you're at it, hop over to Apple or Spotify or any of those kind of places and leave us a five-star review. If you leave us one, I'll make sure and read it on air. Hey, we just wanted to say thank you so much for listening so far. We'd love it if you connected with us on social media. You can find us at Drinking With Robots on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and Threads. While you're at it, go ahead and hit that subscribe button wherever you're listening to this episode at so you don't miss any future ones. Also, check out DrinkingWithRobots.com while you're at it. All right. Welcome back. Thanks for sticking with us after the break. We have Walker Roberts from Raleigh's Own Foundation Bar. Welcome. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm very excited to be here. We're so happy to have you. Now, you're a North Carolina native, aren't you? I was born in South Carolina, but I do claim North Carolina very strongly. My mom's from Durham. My family actually traces back to the people who came looking for the Roanoke Colony, which means I probably had family that was in the Roanoke Colony. But we've been in North Carolina for a very long time. And how long have you been at Foundation? I've been at Foundation for a little over a year. I passionately have called it my favorite bar for about nine years or my entire drinking career. I had my first ever cocktail there, which I think is very fun now that I work there. It's a cool thing that I get to share with tables and whatnot. But I haven't been there super long, but I have always found that as like a home. What was your first cocktail that you had? Oh, old fashioned. If you ask anyone, I used to come in. I was a regular there for a long time and I would drink three old fashions and go home. And I remember the first time that I came in and they were like, Oh, you wanted something else? Like we have an old fashioned already, right? Like they see me coming on the stairs and start making an old fashioned. It was obviously like, you know, the quickest cocktail to make, but it was just boom. And I was like, Oh, I actually just wanted kind of a shot in a beer. And they were like, Oh, I was like, no, no, no, I'll drink it. They're like, okay. Then they started asking me what I wanted. So old fashioned for sure. There's something to be said when you have a place that the moment they see you coming up to the door, they're like, boom, we've got you ready to go. You've spent a lot of your bartending career beer tending, right? Most of it. Yeah, for sure. I'm pretty new to cocktail bartending, but beer tending I'm very good at. I'm very good at just pouring beers and hanging out. So how do you feel about the craft cocktail boom and bust that's happened lately? I mean, to me, like I started out my like service industry career. I was, I was back of house and, and, and management. So I was in kitchens and just kind of like opening restaurants and, and trying to figure out what my place would be and like driving food truck and all that stuff. But I've always considered myself a creative person, but my handwriting is awful and I can't draw. So food was the natural next step. And then like being in the South, like the home cooking that we have here is so good. And there's so many little secrets you can make. Like I have one of those like handwritten, like homemade recipe cookbooks and stuff. And that was always like my creative outlet. And then I got burnt out on kitchen. So I went to, I started beer tending, which is very easy. It was just, oh, you're personable, you know, about beer. Cool. You can pour beers and serve people and whatnot. And that was fun. But then I started doing like frozen cocktails at the brewery, which was really fun. And I was like, oh man, I like researched all these classic cocktails and tried to convert them to like a frozen standpoint. And then now working in cocktailing and like putting drinks on a menu, I feel like that is like truly where like my creative outlet is like perfect. Cause I can do weird things and do whatever I want to. Like if I want to spend hours prepping a drink or if I want to just do an equal parts liquor drink, I can throw all of that together and it's still delicious. And my friends still want to like promote it and push it and sell it. So yeah, I can totally see like, you know, coming from that background of, you know, kitchen and, you know, it's a great way to parlay that experience with building flavors. That's one thing I love is seeing someone who's behind the bar, who really gets like things like flavor affinities and, and knows how to kind of think outside of a box oftentimes too. That's like one of our favorite things to do at foundation is this thing called snackeries, which are like kind of are like green tea shot. Cause we don't have JMO can't make green tea shots, but I'm like, Hey, we do this thing called a snackery. It's a snackable daiquiri and it can be different depending on whatever different syrup or anything that we have for the menu, like coconut, pineapple, passion fruit, banana, like anything, grenadine, cherry, whatever. And we can be really creative with that. And we just kind of like go along the lines of a classic daiquiri, but then mix up the sugars and whatnot. And it's like, you can come in today and get this from me and you won't be able to ever get it ever again. Cause I don't remember how I made it. So now you just said you don't have JMO. So hang on a second. Why not? So foundation, uh, if, if the, for the folks that aren't familiar, we only carry domestic spirits. Um, one of our main focuses is, is not importing anything, trying to keep our carbon footprint really low. We've never had any canned or bottled beer. It's always forever since we've been open has been North Carolina draft, um, all craft beer. We have Angostura. You have to have Angostura like to be a cocktail bar. And, um, funnily enough, we have rumble mints, uh, because it's distilled in Connecticut. Nice. So we are able to carry rumble mints. Um, we don't have Frenette Bronco. We have an Appalachian Frenette from Etta Ryan. That's delicious. So it kind of, uh, it kind of ties our hands a little bit with certain classics and stuff. Like anything with Chartreuse, we can't do anything with Lilit Blanc. Like I can't do like a Vespa or whatever. So those kinds of things we have to really be creative and think of like, how can I make something that's similar to this? We don't have Campari. Our Negronis are really fun. We use Brito Americano as the Apertivo. I think it lends into us being very bourbon forward, but also like very creative cocktail wise. Cause we all have to cater our menu drinks to what we have in stock and what we can get in North Carolina. Do y'all carry any agave spirits? Cause I know tequila and Mezcal are exclusive to Mexico, but are there any, uh, U.S. made agave spirits that y'all carry? We don't. Um, I have not had a good one personally. And I think a lot of them that are really good, this is all speculation. I don't do the liquor ordering, but a lot of them that are really good are very hard to source all the time. So it kind of forces y'all to be a little bit more creative. I know you said it kind of handcuffs you to just American spirits. And while that's true, I think that can be a driver of creativity. We're already handcuffed to American spirits, but it handcuffs us to try to figure out like, how can I make a drink for this person that only drinks tequila? But see, that's the kind of thing, like I think Ingrid's point, it's not uncommon when you talk to like artists and stuff, man, they'll be like, yeah, you know, I've got an entire palette I can draw from, but I really wanted to figure out how I could do this painting in like three really weird colors. And it's kind of the same idea. I think that, you know, by limiting your palette of spirits that you can draw from, that you're not importing anything from outside of the United States, then it forces you to be more creative to your point. And I think that's an amazing thing, but I was going to say, you know, both of you are behind the bar on a regular basis. Is that something that you think about ever? You know, is it something you consciously think about? Like if you're in a competition, do you think about like, I'm going to limit myself to force myself to do this? Or, you know, I want to put a cocktail on the menu, but I want to limit myself in some way to drive myself in a different direction. Absolutely. I think that that's one of the reasons why I love doing competitions, because each competition, like you said, has a different set of rules that you have to follow and a different spirit brand that you have to utilize. And it kind of forces creativity in one way or another. So usually when I'm preparing for a competition, I taste the spirit as is, and then kind of let it tell me what direction we should go. And then sometimes I have a wild idea and I decide to kind of force it into a box, but it is kind of a driver of creativity. I think for me, honestly, like, you know, we, we, we talked about, I started out, like I bartended for five years in a brewery and didn't make a single cocktail until I managed the brewery and was just like making frozen cocktails that, you know, I would just pour bottles in and pour juice in and do whatever it's, you know, it's still bartending, but it's not really like cocktailing. And then my only cocktail job for a long time was at foundation. So I was never exposed to all those things where it's like, oh, you have all these ingredients that like you have no access to. So to me, I think just even just learning, it's just been, I've been focused on classics. We do classics really well, like Manhattan, Martini, Sazerac, you know, our gold rush is fantastic. Like all those like hyper classic, uh, things that we do are really how I've learned how to bartend. So I think I'm in a really unique position where like I'm learning how to cocktail at a place where my hands are tied to the things that we produce in house and the things that we can source like from America. Now you mentioned you create a lot of in-house ingredients. What's the most labor intensive cocktail you've put on the menu? Oh, that's an, a very easy one. Um, I had a drink on the summer menu this year that was essentially a margarita riff, which is funny because we don't have tequila. So like we don't make any margaritas at all. Um, but we have a rum that has kind of an agricultural flavor profile, which kind of lends to the tequila esque, uh, vibe. But I did a roasted poblano pepper infused milk washed margarita riff. That was a lot of work and a lot of work every week. You know, I had to like prep that for the week every single week. Um, but that, that drink was really fun to like very cucumber kind of, uh, like silky smooth margarita vibe with like the vegetal flavor of the roasted pepper, but like none of the heat. And then, you know, the milk pulls all the like kind of astringent, uh, like more aggressive flavors out. So it's just really fun, like kind of summer sipper. Now, I know you have some other hobbies outside of bartending. Are you a ghost hunter? Yes. Uh, hunting is a, is an odd way to put it. We prefer paranormal investigator because we definitely are investigating. Like I'm not like setting up booby traps and stuff. You know what I mean? Like I'm not actively hunting ghosts, but paranormal investigating is super fun. I've always been, uh, very passionate about like paranormal television and all of that fun stuff. And I was like, man, I really would like to just go and do this. So see, I've always enjoyed that kind of stuff, but I am such a skeptic on everything. Like ancient aliens, every episode I've watched it, but I just can't, I'm like, no, no. And so I've seen some of this, you know, was it like ghost hunter international? Yeah. Yeah. Stuff like that. Ghost hunter series was really fun. That was like sci-fi channel. Ghost adventures is definitely the most notorious one. Cause they're the ones where they're like, there's a clip specifically where the guy is like, we put this whiskey out for the, for the ghost. They offered an alcohol offering and he's like, this ghost is making me want to take a shot. And then you're like, he's like, I've never felt, I've never wanted to take a shot while we're investigating before. This is so strange. And it's like, no dude, there's a shot right there. That's why you want to take a shot. That's hilarious. Okay. But all of that aside though, tell us more about this. Cause I want to know, because I'm curious, like how does one, there's definitely a step that goes from, I've watched this on television to I'm in the thick of it. Like tell us all about what's the podcast called. So our podcast is called XP Planus. We primarily go on investigations and the podcast is kind of a vessel for us to like discuss what happened and just tell the story of the place that we just went to and kind of be like a diary for like our investigations. So it's kind of like an audio journal of like what you're doing, right? Yeah, for sure. Like we definitely are just trying to document and then just talk about our experiences and then revisit those and then kind of shed light on different things like that. That would be more like the podcast as episodes that aren't investigations or us trying to like shine a light on stuff that, that we find interesting in that kind of realm. So where have you been recently to investigate paranormal activity? So our last big investigation was actually a Mothman investigation. We went to Point Pleasant on our way back from Monster Fest, which was put on by Small Town Monsters, which is like a really awesome production company that they do a lot of documentary style things on a small town cryptids and paranormal investigating. So you mentioned Mothman. Take a second. Tell us a little bit about who or what Mothman is. So Mothman is West Virginia's most famous cryptid. And I would also argue probably America's most famous cryptid. Mothman was an anomaly that was seen in Point Pleasant, West Virginia in the fifties. I think specifically it was 1957 and there used to be an ammunitions plant in Point Pleasant that was very secretive. This goes into the big Mothman conspiracy, but essentially the day that we dropped atomic bombs on Japan was the day this factory closed and they completely closed. They left it. It was completely abandoned. There's this area called the TNT area in Point Pleasant that is like where this factory was. There's a lot of bunkers there, but it was also kind of like a make out lane for high schoolers at the time. So there was this couple that was out there. They saw this creature and then got chased out of the TNT area by this creature. And it was this big kind of tall humanoid figure with big wings and big glowing red eyes. And the town was terrorized by this Mothman anomaly for I want to say like two or three weeks. And then the last day that they saw it, it was perched on the silver bridge, which is the bridge between West Virginia and Ohio in that region. That night it was Christmas week. I think 1957, the bridge collapsed and it was the deadliest bridge collapse in American history. And that was the last time Mothman was ever seen in Point Pleasant. So it was kind of like this harbinger of doom. Exactly. And they've been, we've been seeing Mothman around kind of other places, most recently at like Chicago O'Hare airport. People don't know why it's just one of those things that pops up and whatnot. So there's a lot of conspiracies as to whether it was some kind of government project that was at the plant, a side of making bombs and whatnot, that it was some kind of, they were trying to utilize it to end World War II or if it was a person that got sick from drinking, tainted, whatever, and then developed these weird kind of superpower. There's all these different conspiracies about what, no one really knows what Mothman is or what it was or anything. Point Pleasant is a wild place too, because there's nothing there but Mothman. There's like indoor putt-putt and then three restaurants and a Mothman museum. And that's it. That's like the entire town. So in your investigation, did you find evidence of Mothman? No. Mothman has not been seen there since the fifties. Like there's not any evidence or anything else. People are fascinated by just this series of sightings that happened over like a three week period. So is this more of like just a trip to a place where Mothman was or? So we, yeah, I mean, Point Pleasant is kind of like a, it's, it's kind of like a pilgrimage for investigators. I had never been before this trip. But on our way back, we were just like, man, we'd like, why drive 13 hours? We could drive six and go to Point Pleasant and then drive seven home, you know? And I think we went out with like a real scientific kind of vibe, which we usually bring where we just want to like go out and document and take pictures and do investigations. So we did an ESTA session at the bridge collapse site, which was really interesting. Just like being in that place where all those people died at the same time, like that is going to lend to some kind of paranormal activity likely. So we again just wanted to kind of document what we could. And we went out to the TNT area and actually caught a UAP flying in the sky. Now, hold up. You use the word ESTA session and then you just said UAP. Can you kind of describe what those things are? Yeah. So an ESTA session is it's kind of a fancy way of using a spirit box, which a spirit box is something that scans through radio signals and it goes very, very fast. And essentially the theory is that spirits can pull voices from the radio and communicate with you that way. The ESTA session was developed in Estes Park, Colorado by a paranormal team who was exclusively investigating the Stanley Hotel, which is a quote unquote, like that was the hotel, the shining hotel, the shining. It's not, it's not where they filmed it, but it's where Stephen King was inspired. Yeah. So there was a team there that developed this method of utilizing a spirit box, but having noise canceling headphones on. And one person is listening to the spirit box and then one person is asking questions. And the theory is that if you're asking questions that the person can't hear and they're answering you, you're basically like a filter for the spirit box because the spirit box will just spit words out. And it's very confusing to use in an investigation that when you don't utilize the ESTA session, it basically is a way to filter out the bullshit where you can say like, oh, they're responding to me, but they didn't hear the question, but they're giving me, they're answering my question verbatim. So it's kind of like a way to filter a lot of those words out. And then UAP is kind of the more modernized term for UFO. It's an unidentified aerial phenomenon. We were out in Point Pleasant around sundown. So the sun was still up, but one thing that's pertinent to like the footage that we caught was the sun was definitely like below the tree line. Like it was still light enough to see things, but the glare wasn't as heavy. Like it was more, the sun was kind of horizontal and we saw this pill shaped thing flying through the sky with a line through the middle and it was metallic. So we saw kind of the reflection of the skyline and the like sunset and we filmed it for maybe like 40 minutes or I filmed it on my phone. We didn't have a camera that like my phone was the best camera to be able to zoom in and try to film it. We couldn't get a clear real video, but we watched it fly for like 45 seconds and it just kind of glided through the air and then disappeared. And that was the only real evidence that we caught in Point Pleasant, but it was wild to see. That shape reminds me of a tic-tac shape. It was very tic-tac. It looks like a pill because it had that separation. Like it was a kind of a black line in the middle. It was my first ever UAP experience. So that was, that was super cool. Now all this evidence, what conclusions did y'all draw? Any, or are you just kind of documenting what happened? I don't know if we've ever come to a conclusion. I think I've, I've never gone on an investigation or done anything where I feel like I have more answers than more questions. Like we always just find more questions to ask. I've never been able to show anyone something that I've personally captured or experienced that has proven them. They're like, I saw this and ghosts are real now to me because of like your evidence. Like, I think a lot of that stuff is purely experience based. And there's the reason that like those TV shows, nothing has ever come out of it. Nothing has ever been like defended. Oh, there's definitive proof. Like you have to experience that. You have to be there and feel it. I think that's one of the things, you know, from the first part of our show that we found in doing research for the show is so many times to your point of like evidence and it's something that is empirical or can be validated. It seems like the three cryptids that we covered, which were Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster and Chupacabra with all of them. There's something that you're like, all the really big evidence kind of breaks down under like a lot of scrutiny. But to your point, so many people have experiences that it's tough to explain in a way that explains it away. I guess the question part is the thing. I've never come back with answers versus questions where I have answers. I've seen full body apparitions. I've been scratched. I've been poked. I've been like physically affected to the point that I had to leave. And you know what I mean? And I still just know like actual answer that I can point at and be like, that's that without just having belief. On that note, what's your most disturbing paranormal experience? There are two that really stick out. Like getting scratched at the Sally house was sobering. I think the Sally house is in Atchison, Kansas. It is an unassuming three bedroom, like one and a half bath house in the middle of nowhere in Kansas. That was the first major investigation that I went on. And we did a lot of experiments and we kind of like pushed a little bit harder than we probably should have. And I was upstairs in one of the children's bedrooms and we had staged all these little toys. It was super creepy. But we were having like the EM pumps were going off and we were separate. There was a group downstairs and I was with the group upstairs and I just felt this burning on my neck. And we had been, we had been there for a few days. And I think that was when the house started to really, this, the spirit there, like really started to push back on us. And I got, I had this burning on my neck and I was just like, man, like I, I got to go outside. I just got to get a breather. And my friends were like, your neck is red. And then they pulled back like my collar and they were like, oh, you have a scratch. And I was like, that's crazy. Like, and then that later that night I was disassociating. I felt like I was above the group. I could see myself in the whole group. I was like floating above. I was like, I have to leave. Like I can't be here. The second one, there's just equally terrifying was at Waverly Hill Sanatorium, which is a tuberculosis sanatorium in Louisville, Kentucky. We did an esta session in the morgue. John, who was like the host of the podcast was laying on the autopsy table and I was asking the questions and it felt like there was a, an older person just like on my arm. You know, like when you like think about walking an old lady across the street, they're like holding onto your arm. It was just ice cold. And we left that and I had these stomach pains. I was like, we were in the break room and I was having this stomach pain and someone was like, oh, we see the creeper, which is this whole other entity at Waverly. It's this kind of humanoid thing that will crawl on the ceiling towards you, like a shadow figure that kind of morphs through the shadows. And we were seeing it and I went out and man, like when I hit that hallway, it just felt like someone was like wrenching my intestines, just like reached into my stomach and was squeezing and my vision was like tunneling and I just could barely even stand up. I had people were like holding me up and I was just so like physically affected by it that we went up to the top floor to kind of get a breather and I got some air and then came back in and then it felt like after that, that I was sitting in a circle and the children ghosts were like tapping me on the head. Like we were playing duck, duck, goose. That's wild. Wow. Now I'm not surprised that the three cryptids we chose to examine in the beginning of this episode are the ones that we could kind of explain away. I think Rob and I are both on the same page. We're kind of skeptics, but you sound like a true believer. I've had plenty of experiences in the way that to me personally, there's no question that there's something going on. Cryptids is, is, is one thing like paranormal to me. I'm like, there's for sure like ghosts are a thing. Like, you know, we have too much spirit and personality in ourselves to think that that just dies with us. Like that part of ourselves, I think for sure carries on. There's some cryptids that I think are without a doubt real, but that goes into like, do we think aliens are real? Like, are these cryptids actually aliens? And are we like confused as to what we're seeing or like. That kind of ties back into that ancient alien idea. Yeah. No, for sure. You know, of like playing into the, oh, well, you know, the, in folklore, they, you know, they represented this character, but it's actually, I don't know. I, what's crazy is like, we investigated the Moon-Eyed people in North Georgia. The Moon-Eyed people battled the Cherokee. And the reason that we know about the Moon-Eyed people is from Cherokee, like spoken history. The Moon-Eyed people were characterized as big black eyes only came out at night around three feet tall, right? In the Appalachian mountains. Fast forward to 1957 and you have the Hopkinsville goblin encounter where a UFO crashed in Hopkinsville, Kentucky. And then for the next like three months, there were these goblins running around that nobody knew what happened. Nobody knew what was going on. This is the most documented alien encounter in American history. There were sheriffs. There were doctors. There were like, all of these people were like, we saw these goblins. We don't know what they are. We don't know what happened. Fast forward now, there's a show on Amazon called Hellier, which is one of my favorite paranormal shows. If you want like a real dive into an investigation, watch Hellier. It's incredible. But this guy described these goblin-like aliens that were terrorizing him and his family on their farmstead in the middle of nowhere in Kentucky. And they were maybe 40 miles from Hopkinsville, also connected to the mammoth cave system. Think about if aliens just lived in the caves and were just running around the caves and doing whatever, you know what I mean? Like, well, okay, hang on before we get too far. Yeah, no, we're going to woo-woo for sure. Lisa, it's amazing. I think what it comes down to is I've never had an experience that has ever made me go, that was paranormal. And I think that's why I am such a cynic, I guess, and so kind of skeptical about it. You know, I've never had a moment where I was like, could that be ghosts? You know, I'm like, oh, that's drafty. You know what I mean? And not to short anybody who does believe in that, but that's just, you know, for me, it's that lack of experience that makes me go, no, it just doesn't reverberate. What was funny is like, as an investigator, like going on investigations, I have to have that mindset. Everything has to be scrutinized and questioned. Like, we go through our evidence, like what was going on? Like, what could that have been? Like, we have to carry through every single thing that it could have been, you know? I was going to say, I think the reason I'm a skeptic is I choose not to put myself in situations that would lend itself to have these experiences. I am a tiny baby who I don't really enjoy scary movies and I don't really like haunted houses and I don't, I don't enjoy the act of being scared. So I kind of avoid being in those places. So I think that's part of the reason why I'm a skeptic is because by design, I haven't had those experiences. I hear that. I think a lot of people like view what we do and when we go out on investigations as being really scary. But really we're like going on a fun hike in the woods with our friends. We go out there with a blank slate and we just say, what activity are we going to find? What activity can we try to draw out based on non-provoking activity? I think truly like the excitement when you see something or whatnot is like, I tell people that it's like going on a roller coaster. I do enjoy your analogy of the roller coaster. I am also not a roller coaster person. So I don't think ghost hunting or I'm sorry, paranormal investigating. I just don't think it's for me. But see, now I'm a front of the roller coaster rider. Yeah. Yeah. That is one of my favorite things. I will reluctantly go on roller coasters, but it's never something I'm like, oh, guys, let's go do this. It's always I'm being dragged onto a roller coaster. Well, you know, speaking of roller coasters, the first part of this episode was kind of a little bit of a roller coaster for Ingrid and I, because we had an opportunity to learn a lot about cryptids, we'll say worldwide. You know, that kind of brings us into the cocktail challenge for this episode. We challenged both you and the AI to craft a cocktail centered around your favorite cryptid. You know, we expected to see using ingredients from where they're most likely to be found. So with that, Walker, if you don't mind, tell us a little bit about your favorite cryptid. Yeah. So the cryptid that I chose is called the Boojum. It's from Haywood County, North Carolina. The Balsam Mountain region essentially is our favorite gym hoarding, peeping Tom, Bigfoot-esque character in North Carolina. He would like to watch women bathe in the streams and lakes, but also loved collecting the native gemstones in North Carolina. So definitely check out the Boojum. He's very little known, but in Western North Carolina, very popular kind of figure. So we'll make sure and put something in the show notes. Maybe we'll link to a little bit of info about them. Absolutely. And I love that you picked something really hyper-local. Oh yeah. Especially like working at Foundation, I kind of had to, you know, like, especially with crafting drinks and stuff, like all of our North Carolina spirits are really great. And I wanted to highlight the drum wish as much as I could. Speaking of the cocktail, what did you call it? Boojum's Bijou. Tell us more about it. So as you all probably know, a Bijou is traditionally gin, chartreuse, and sweet vermouth, which represents the three gems. You've got diamond, emerald, and ruby. So I decided to choose the drumless poaching as my gin replacement. You can't really replace green chartreuse, so it's in there as well. And then the sweet vermouth, I decided to infuse with a drop of balsam pine extract, which lends directly to where the Boojum is from. And then orange bitters are also an ingredient in the Bijou. So just kind of a classic Bijou spec. I dropped a quarter of the green chartreuse and up to a quarter of the poaching. So, you know, it's kind of ultra classic on that point. Love it. And that was served up in a coop. Yeah. Whatever cocktail glass you have. It's funny at Foundation, we don't have anything with stems. So we don't have coops. We just call them cocktail glasses. But yeah, served in a coop, garnished with a cherry as like your kind of jewel in the middle. It was a classic cocktail cherry. And then, yeah, orange expression. Ironically enough, the AI competitor went hyperlocal as well. Nice. And chose the Beast of Bladenboro. So the Beast of Bladenboro is a mysterious, fierce, cryptid in the kind of the swampy areas of Bladen County, North Carolina. It created a cocktail it calls the Shadow of the Beast. I always love the names. Oh, yeah. They're fantastic. It says this cocktail captures the dark, wild energy with smoky, earthy, and slightly sweet notes that reflect the swampy landscape and southern roots. It called for North Carolina craft whiskey. We used a little bit of Weldon Mills in there. Three quarters of an ounce of blackstrap molasses syrup. Basically, it said it evoked the dense, shadowy swamps and adds a rich, earthy sweetness, perfect for colder months. It used fresh beet juice. They provide a blood red hue, symbolizing the creature's wild and predatory reputation. A little bit of lemon juice to balance everything out. Two dashes of smoked chili bitters to reflect the beast's fierce nature and the smoky undertones of its swampy layer. That was also served in a coop, garnished with a burnt orange peel and a charred pine needle sprig, symbolizing North Carolina's dense pine forests. I'm always amazed at these moments where I see overlap between our real life human cocktail bartender and the AI challenger. It's crazy to me that it chose the beast of Bladenboro because I almost, I, you know, I wanted to do a chronic cryptids. That's one of the big ones, but that's wild that it picked one from here. It's weird that it went that same route. It's funny. And the pine and everything. Yeah, it's very interesting. Yeah, there's a lot of overlap. All right. So this is the part that everybody loves. It's time to talk about the scores. So as we always say, we have three big buckets of points. We have 50 points for taste. We have 30 points for presentation, 20 points for originality. Let's get to it. So Walker, for you, your cocktail scored 42 points out of a possible 50 for taste. Congratulations. That's a tasty cocktail. It scored 26 out of 30 for presentation. Nicely presented. Gotta love a cube glass. Scored 17 out of a possible 20 on originality. Good job. Nice. And, you know, don't see a lot of bijus come through here. So awesome. That gives you a total of 85 points. I feel strong. That's a strong score. At minimum, I think I scored higher than Patty. Bragging rates at foundation are on the line. He's going to love it. For the AI, 42 points for taste. That's strong. 26 points for presentation and 17 points for originality. You have tied with the AI on this episode of Drinking with Robots. How many times has that happened? So last season, we had one tie and you are our first tie of season two. That's exciting. Hey, I'm not mad about that. Now, one thing I want to point out, we'll get to the judge's notes because I always love sharing those. The tie that we had in season one was a, we'll call it a sum tie. You know what I mean? The, when we, when we tallied up the taste, the presentation and the originality, you know, the numbers added up to the same number, but they were different in each category. This is the first time we've ever had a situation where both cocktails scored the same numbers in each category of points. So that's a little weird. Welcome to cryptids, man. It doesn't make any sense. Synchronicity. So it's really crazy. Synchronicity is one of the things that we believe in the most. Like synchronicity is such a common thread in paranormal investigating where it's like this happened and this happened and this happened. And then we all came to this point. So it honestly is a little creepy and weird that we had synchronicity in the scores for the first time ever on the podcast. Like that's wild to me. Now I feel even weirder. Maybe I just had a moment. Yeah. Right. All right. Now you believe. Don't know if I could go that far, but here's what I do want to say is that in talking about the AI cockpit, the judge said that it was juicy yet vegetal, lending to an enticing complexity, slightly smokier in flavor than they thought it would be. Ingredients make sense for the area, but maybe more specific vegetables or fruits, you know, to the area of North Carolina would have been nice. For your cocktail, slightly medicinal, but great overall complexity and flavor. Garnish could have been a bit more creative. I will say for anybody who's listening, who thinks they ever want to come on the show, the judge does like a good, you know, a good garnish. So keep that in mind. Sounds like I got tied by the, by the, by the, by the burnt orange peel, but they did say it got the job done. Uh, the ingredients were a great representation of the region in question and the cryptids. So, uh, congratulations for that. Sweet. I feel great about it. Yeah. Bijou, super fun. Gems, gym, you know, I couldn't do a peeping Tom cocktail. So I had to lean into the gym side of the, of, of, of, of the boo gym. Absolutely. Well, listen, Walker, thank you so much for stopping by and sitting down with us and talking all about the paranormal and cryptids. If folks want to keep up with you, how can they do that? So XV Planis is, uh, the podcast and you can follow us on social media. It's E-X-V-P-L-A-N-I-S. I work at Foundation and Longleaf Swine Barbecue here in Raleigh, North Carolina. Come hang out. I love talking about ghosts and cryptids and all that fun stuff. I, whether I'm drinking or hanging out or working, I love to share. So. Well, that's awesome. With that, that's us signing off saying drink well, be well, live moss.