0:00

Welcome back to another episode of Drinking With Robots. I'm your host Rob Nester.

Rob Nester: 0:08

And I'm your co-host Ingrid Folkers. And today we're talking about something I'm very passionate about, which is Dungeons and Dragons. We'll be talking about the history of the world's most popular tabletop role-playing game and delving into how a game created 50 years ago is still a thriving piece of pop culture. Later, we'll talk to Jon Mateer of the Bartenders podcast to discuss the intersection of bartending and Dungeons & Dragons. We'll also get to see how Jon stacks up against the AI Challenger as they go head-to-head to answer

this episode's D&D-inspired prompt. Rob Nester: 0:38

But first, a word from our sponsors. Upgrade your cocktail game with Remedy Cocktail Company's handcrafted bitters. Order online at RemedyCocktailCompany.com and choose from over 20 flavors. Elevate your drink experience today. Rob, have you ever played D&D?

Rob Nester: 1:01

Okay. I'm going to lose a lot of nerd credit here, but I've not. I mean, I'm familiar with it kind of as a, I know it's a thing. You know, I grew up in the 1980s and I remember it being one of the things that was pointed to as part of the satanic panic. You know, it was, oh, the kids are listening to heavy metal and, you know, playing Dungeons and Dragons. You know, I've had a lot of friends in my life that play D&D, you know, they're really into it. And then, you know, more recently with Stranger Things, it made a huge resurgence in pop culture. And I've, I gotta be honest, I've always been curious about it, but I don't know that I have really have the patience to sit and play for hours. Honestly, I can't recommend it enough. If you're worried about an attention span situation, there's always a one-shot style campaign you could do. Okay. So what does that mean?

D&D: 1:52

So a one-shot is a campaign that's wrapped up in one sitting.

Rob Nester: 1:57

See, because that's one of the things that I think has always kind of driven me a little bit nuts about D&D is, you know, I've got friends that are like, we meet every week and we've been playing this campaign for like seven months or something like, you know, I mean, yeah, I don't even know how long they actually go. How long do they go sometimes?

D&D: 2:13

You can go as long as the group wants to really, or as long as a DM can sustain. I have friends that have been playing for four years or more, and it just depends on if people move away or if schedules get disrupted.

Rob Nester: 2:29

Okay. You mentioned a DM?

D&D: 2:31

Yes. DM, Dungeon Master is what a DM is.

Rob Nester: 2:36

Okay. Because I've also heard the term Game Master. Are those the same thing, or are they different?

D&D: 2:41

Effectively, they're the same thing. Some prefer the term Games Master because it's a little bit more inclusive. Dungeon Master is used only when referring to D&D. Games Master is used among all of the tabletop role-playing games.

Rob Nester: 2:56

Okay. And I know there's a bunch, right?

D&D: 2:58

There's thousands.

Rob Nester: 3:00

See, because that's the thing is like, I know, I've heard of D&D, but then I guess I kind of assumed that everything else was just D&D as well. But I didn't realize there were so many. And one thing that's kind of wild is I know that as my children like to remind me I am old, but D&D is older than I am. You know, in preparation for this, I read a little bit. I did a little of the reading. But it's been around for like 50 years. And it was Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson that invented it. You know, honestly, I can't imagine that, you know, when they were sitting around coming up with this, that they were like, you know what, this is going to be massively popular.

D&D: 3:38

Yeah, I think they really underestimated the popularity. I don't think either of them had an idea that it would still be popular 50 years later. And when they designed this game, it was really, it was born out of war games that were popular at that time where you would play with miniatures on a battle map. So D&D took that as kind of a base of the mechanics. And instead of one person controlling a whole army, each person in the party has their own character that they're in control of and make independent decisions. So effectively, it was Gygax who created this medieval war game chainmail. It was the start of it. And it was pretty cut and dry until you got to the like the last section of the rulebook where he effectively threw in, oh yeah, here's some mechanics for if you want to fight a dragon or if you want to play a wizard or have wizards in your game. And effectively was just saying, also, here's this if you want to get real weird with it. Yeah, so the reading that I was doing, I talked about Arneson built on Gygax's chain mill and really kind of turned it into the multi-session role-playing game that we kind of know now with like fantastical characters, you know, delving deeper into the dungeons like traps and twists. It was kind of neat that they ended up meeting in person in like 1971 at a con and agreed to co-write this new game, which kind of expanded on both of their ideas. They were able to self-publish the game in 1974 under a company they called Tactical Strategy Rules. And the reason they had to publish under their own company is they couldn't find a publisher that would do it for them. They only had a budget of $2,000, which in today's money, that's like $16,000. But that's still not much. I mean, bootstrap an entire company. No, absolutely not. Gygax took control of the company while Arneson was originally in the role of creative director, but he was pushed out of the company in 1976. And the next year, TSR published a new version of the game titled Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. And Arneson was not given any royalties for that second version. So yeah, in 1979, he took TSR to court. So my understanding is, you know, they ended up settling out of court, you know, for the lawsuit, but that doesn't mean that everything was cool. The hatchet wasn't buried

between them. There was a book called Game Wizards: 6:11

The Epic Battle for Dungeons and Dragons. I read like a little snippet out of that's John Peterson. If you're looking that up, listeners, you know, it's kind of centered around this iconic feud between the two.

D&D: 6:25

And that's not the end of the story either, because Gary Gygax didn't maintain control over his company forever. He was pushed out too. In 1984, Gygax actually hired a woman named Lorraine Williams to help steer the company back to profitability. Unfortunately, those two had a falling out and she ended up buying out all of his other partners and in a very dramatic move at a board meeting, kind of blindsided him and took over control of the company. Oof, that's devious. Yeah, it was a savage move for sure. She maintained control of the company until 97, when she sold it to Wizards of the Coast, which is the company behind Magic the Gathering. So D&D is still causing waves even now under Wizard of the Coast's ownership. Like I said, I've never played D&D, but one thing that I really got interested in last year was this news story where a document was leaked from Wizards that proposed changes in D&D's open game license. For those of you out there who may not be familiar with licensing, it's something that happens in like the software world and in copyright assignment and things of like intellectual property. The open game license was structured so that players could like craft and monetize their own tabletop experiences using the D&D rules and mechanics as long as they avoided reproducing official characters and setting stories, art, etc. So like you couldn't set something in an official D&D realm, but you could use like the rolling a die to establish, you know, I guess the strength of X, Y, or Z, you know, your attack or your magic or whatever. And so, you know, it allowed people to build off of the mechanics and kind of the general ideas. The thing that was wild was it went from no royalty to a 25% royalty on revenue from any creator earning above 750,000 per year. Now, that sounds like a crazy amount of money. But if you really think about it, you know, if you're selling like digital content and things like that, it's not unheard of to be able to hit those kind of numbers. And I think what really stuck with a lot of these creators from the articles that I was reading is that they're doing this without using any of the official stuff. But the change in the license would give wizards of the coast the right to use any of their created content, you know, under any purpose that wizards wanted to. So it's you can't use anything of ours, but we can now draw from any of yours. And I think even outside of the financial component, I think that was the biggest thing that that really hit a lot of the independent creators. That change would have drastically affected some of my favorite creators, namely Critical Role and Dimension 20. And if you're not familiar with either, just know that you're missing out. Critical Role is a group of very talented voice actors that all come together under the guidance and direction of Dungeon Master Matthew Mercer. For people new to D&D, I would definitely recommend checking out the show. It's an animated show that was adapted from one of their live streams. It's called The Legend of Vox Machina. And you can catch it, I believe, on Prime video. And it's a great way to kind of get your feet wet in terms of seeing where D&D can go. All right, I'm adding that to the watch list. Another one you should add to your watch list is Dimension 20, who is DMed by Brennan Lee Mulligan, who is my personal favorite DM I've ever seen. He has such a good grasp of world building and storytelling and allowing space for his players to make whatever kind of decisions they want, which really makes for an engaging, interactive Dungeons and Dragons experience. Dimension 20 is also cast by comedians and people who have been doing improv for decades. So you know it's going to be good. Yeah, I mean, I could imagine that really kind of builds into it. You've got a good Dungeon Master and then people who are very adept at the yes and then kind of idea with improv. I could see that being really fun. Yeah, improv and Dimension 20 kind of go hand in hand in that space. And Dimension 20 has kind of more of a comedic style in some of theirs, whereas Critical Role, I would say is a little bit more serious that also has some comedy elements. So you mentioned Vox Machina or the legend of Vox Machina for Critical Role. Is there anything you'd recommend starting with with Dimension 20? Dimension 20, where I started, I think is a perfect place to start, which was Fantasy High, because you get all of the elements of like high fantasy, you get orcs and elves and witchcraft and all that stuff that you're craving from D&D, but it's set in a high school. Oh, okay. Yeah. So you also get a lot of teen angst and a lot of issues that aren't issues in real life, but in a teen's head, they're issues. Okay, awesome. So that's awesome to know about those two creators. I wasn't familiar with either of them. But you know, one thing that I think everyone was thrilled about was that, you know, when that document leaked from Wizards of the Coast, apparently they pivoted pretty quick. And the executive producer Kyle Brink made an announcement. They were giving the core D&D mechanics to the community through a Creative Commons license. So talking about licenses again, Creative Commons is basically here. Everyone can do derivative works from this with no issues whatsoever. One of my favorite games is actually released under a Creative Commons license and it's Cards Against Humanity. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's actually that became one of the poster children for Creative Commons licensing. And that's why you have like Cards Against Humidity and all these little spin-offs and things like that. Yeah, actually, I have a shameless plug here. I have to shout out my friend Chandler, who was the creator of the Heard card game, which is actually a service industry themed Cards Against Humanity game. Okay, we're going to link to that in the show notes. Absolutely. There is a big discourse on how to play D&D "correctly". There are people who believe that D&D should be played simply with the theater of the mind and using only one's imagination to play the game. And then see, I've known people who've played D&D and they would get so into like painting miniatures and doing prop making. Like I knew someone who they were a DM for a game and one of the characters that they played, their journal was like really important to the storyline. And so they went so far as they started with making their own paper and then bookbinding that and then aging this journal, you know, like that they had written in. And then, you know, they would read from it as the game progressed. Wow. That is pretty intricate. That's kind of high level of commitment on a DM's part, I would say. And it really just depends on how much time and energy the DM or games master, if you want to call them, wants to put in. So is it generally going to be the DM or the games master that's making these props and miniatures or, you know, is that something that players do as well? I would say most of the time, it's the games master controlling that. There are instances where a player may create a prop and bring it to the table as well. Or sometimes players create their own miniatures. Other times, the GM creates the miniatures. I think it's just a dynamic you have to flush out within your party. Having not played, and I don't have an opinion either way because I've never done it, but, you know, thinking about kind of where it came out of, you know, the idea of like these like battle map games, I feel like that probably is a pretty major component of the gameplay, wouldn't it be? Oh, yeah, for sure. I've played both ways, theater of the mind only, as well as having battle maps and miniatures. And I can't say I really have a preference. It just kind of feels like two different versions of the same game. You know, I was just thinking about something you said earlier with Gary Gygax having to hire Lorraine Williams to kind of move the company into a more profitable stance. And, you know, it's got to be hard to have a company that makes money on a game that doesn't really require much if you're not selling miniatures or whatever. You're basically just you're selling a rule book. So yeah, that's why we've seen so much other media come out that's D&D related. It was under Lorraine's leadership in the 90s and 2000s that D&D launched a series of novels. Yeah. And like I talked about at the beginning of the show, Dungeons and Dragons has been featured, you know, in various TV shows, you know, like Stranger Things. I know it's also been on one of my other favorite shows, which is Community. Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Freaks and Geeks, and Big Bang Theory as well. Yeah, I think Community did one of the best renditions of a D&D themed episode that we've ever seen. In addition to novels and movies, a D&D cocktail book was actually released earlier this year. It's called Puncheons and Flagons, the official Dungeons and Dragons cocktail book, written by Andrew Wheeler with recipes attributed to Ashley Stoyanov. So is Wheeler a bartender or like somebody in the industry? Wheeler is an author employed by Wizards of the Coast to write D&D related content. The recipes are attributed to an Ashley Stoyanov. However, I've been searching the internet and I can't find any information on who this person is. Yeah. And see, I'm always a little skeptical when I see especially themed cocktail books written by, you know, a non-fiction, you know, a fiction author or, you know, somebody who's not in the industry. Me too, which is why I really wanted to find out who Ashley is and find any crumb of information on her. So, listeners, if you know Ashley Stoyanov, let us know, get in touch with us, you know, hit us up on Instagram or, you know, send us an email, you know, whatever you need to do. But we're really curious, like, who is this person? Ashley, if you want to slide into our DMs and introduce yourself, that would be excellent. Surprisingly, I actually think I like the majority of cocktails in this book. I haven't had the opportunity to make any of them, but just reading them and judging them on paper, they seem like they'd be balanced. Of course, the techniques remain kind of basic to be accessible to the average person that's not a bartender, but that's to be expected. And I actually like that it's a lot of punches that serve a larger group of people because that's the intention, right? You want something to serve while you're playing D&D. And that's not the only intersection of drinks and D&D. Our guest on this episode of the podcast is John Mateer, the host of the Bardtenders podcast, as well as the beverage manager at TPC Sawgrass. Bardtenders is a Dungeons and Dragons podcast where a group of bartenders escape their lives behind bars and trade in their shakers for dice. In each episode, they put liquids in cups, explore magical worlds, and want monsters along the way. So stick around after the break to see how Jon does against our AI competitor in the quest to prepare the perfect healing potion for their D&D party. Are you a professional bartender who thinks they have what it takes to defeat our AI challenger? If so, we'd love to talk to you. Reach out by sliding into our DMs We're drinking with robots on instagram or email us at bookings at DrinkingWithRobots.com Hey, we just want to say thank you so much for listening so far. We'd love it if you connected with us on social media You can find us at drinking with robots on instagram facebook tiktok and threads while you're at it go ahead and hit that subscribe button wherever you're listening to this episode at so you don't miss any future ones Also, check out DrinkingWithRobots.com while you're at it Thanks for sticking around with us after the break on today's episode we have john mater from tpc sawgrass beverage director as well as a host of the bartenders podcast and you know, I love the name but let me tell you one little letter just trips you up if you if you're not careful. It's definitely an enunciate title. Oh, it's definitely tough. Uh, scott one of our players likes to say that we put the d in bartenders so um, so john You're currently at tpc sawgrass, but let's take a step back. Tell us a little bit about you and and kind of Your background and and maybe how you ended up Behind the bar and and where you are today. Yeah, of course I've been in the industry about 15 years now Uh, went to college Uh, like most people, you know, you're like told that that's what you have to do your whole life uh, graduate the history degree and there's nothing there after graduation As a fellow Uh political science history double major, uh, I discovered that that and about$4 will get you a cup of coffee anywhere and that's about it That's really about it. Sometimes people buy me a drink, uh, if it's if the topic's good, but it's really really not much else Uh, my minor was latin american studies, uh, so didn't have a whole lot to do there either Uh, graduated college, uh, got a job bartending at a local elks lodge in my hometown Uh, a lot of my family members were members. So it was just like super easy to slide in Uh, realized that I needed to do something else because everyone was asking me what's my real job. And I was like, well, no, even then This is currently my real job But I felt pressure then not like I do today So I applied to grad school went to grad school for latin american studies Uh, again, another very lucrative field Uh, very niche History elements focusing on immigration policy and I was going to law school to realize I hated that Uh, but Also realized that I loved bartending right Every single day I got to be creative. I got to interact with people. I got to talk about really anything, right? I mean that was history in action talking about all these topics whether it was pop culture to whatever they were passionate about the guessing across the bar And at some point I just Turned it on made the switch One of my managers brought in the original death and co cocktail book and this moment in my brain. I was like Oh, this is this is a history book And it's about cocktails and i'm making drinks right now I think we can figure this out Uh, so that that kind of started the deep dive Uh, then dropped out of school out of grad school And started really focusing on my career Uh, made the move out to denver whenever death and co actually opened the location How could I not apply? Uh, I got it I gotta try Um, and so I did I got out there we moved out there and then we were there until code that we opened up the location Uh started as a food runner there even though I had been a bar manager at all my other bars Uh, but when you go to a spot and everybody's a bar manager Someone has to be a food runner Uh, it was also the only job left in the building and I said i'll take it So talk to us a little bit about what that experience was like, you know, uh, I feel like death and co is definitely one of the names that gets bandied about in the industry of like, oh That's you know, heavy hitters, you know, that you know, they're putting out the books that everybody's reading, you know, that kind of thing Uh, while you were there Was that a was that a formative experience for you or did it? One thousand percent Oh, yeah, it was it was so incredible for me, uh, so we get there they're not opening for a month They have everybody hired ready to go My partner now wife also got a job there She was the lead hostess at the time eventually became their actual events manager and took care of all their events in the building But we didn't open for a month. So we did nine to five training five days a week for a month. That's insane. How many businesses do that? How many like nobody? So we did all that training. I mean we covered every topic under the sun We had guest speakers coming in giving lectures teaching us about all these spirits You know, and then you're doing drills in the restaurant, you know, you're running around with trays full water glasses full wine for one day Just like navigating like blindfolded learning the space and the building Because you know as much as there was pressure on us as employees There was also a little pressure on them first location in 10 years after winning all those awards and publishing books So everybody who was there was just everyone was so Good and there are people from all over the country and like There wasn't a miss in the batch like it was so great and you know, just being a food runner. I got to Take kind of a back seat. I think I actually got lucky Because I didn't have as much pressure as some of the bartenders who on opening night Everyone was watching not just guests media bartenders around the world everybody Man, I was just taking food of tables I got to watch It was absolutely incredible. Um, you know, but within four or five months I had been a bar back and then another month or two later. I was bartender helping run the education program So very very fast study Can you tell us a little bit about what that education program at death and co is like? Yeah, of course So like anything and this was a really cool thing that they did they empowered all the employees to take on different committees within the building So there was a finance community or committee. There was a community outreach committee There was an education committee and they kind of put the onus on people that were looking for opportunities to do things Uh, so as lead I had five other committee members and we kind of were working with brands to come and do monthly lectures We had a book club going for a while We had employee newsletters that we were creating so that way you like could always check out like all the concerts going on all the sports events going on So you're constantly like able to like answer guest questions because we were in a hotel Super important. You have 50 rooms in a boutique hotel so Education committee was or the education opportunity was really what we made of it and We did as much as we could, you know, we were doing blind tastings It was it was a really cool opportunity, especially for somebody who was just moving into like that bartending role and they gave me that opportunity Because I love education and I got to kind of run with it I think that education program really makes or breaks that elevated cocktail bar that can really Be a defining factor of just an average cocktail bar to one of the Elite cocktail bars in the country. Well, I think it's even more than that, too It's not just that the education's there. It's that you create a culture where everybody wants to be part of that education process, too That's what's most important because I could give you the best education program in the world But if only one or two people show up all the time Those one or two people are gonna have one of the best experiences But it doesn't create an amazing bar program. You have to get everybody bought in Okay, so you're in denver you're doing death and co what shifted next because now you're down in tpc. Was that a direct move? You know going to sawgrass or so COVID happened and they did an amazing job. They kept people employed for as long as possible You know, they they helped out as much as they could but eventually especially in denver that was you know So great following all the policies and taking care of people Eventually the money starts to get a little bit tighter You have to start laying people off a little bit my partner and my wife and I were like, okay, what do we do? I'm like, well, let's go down to florida. Let's visit family So we're down here in florida and we go to st augustine for the weekend and I met up with a friend for coffee And he's like, what are you what are you doing right now? Nothing. I'm just trying to figure out life. I'm laid off trying to put the pieces together You want to help me run a bar? Yeah, sure I can I can do that. That sounds good. I can help you for a little while He goes well, I'm opening this new bar And I need a head bartender Great sounds awesome. What are we thinking like a month? Two months Just tonight We're opening tonight You you brought your bartending tools, right? Yeah, I got my bag I can do this So I helped open a bar in st augustine florida and my wife went back pack up all her stuff and we moved down here And but I didn't do that forever Right. I helped open that bar for a little while hop around to another spot And I realized that I was just tired. I was Early I was 30. I think and my shoulder started to hurt my knees hurt I was just I was done with like closing at two in the morning cleaning the bar till four Coming home having dinner breakfast whatever you call that meal Yeah, you know, sometimes it's over a trash can sometimes it's not But I was just tired. And so I started looking for other options because I needed longevity So I saw that tbc sawgrass with the pga tour was hiring a food and beverage manager Not just a beverage manager Food and beverage just like starting manager salary and I was like Screw it. I'd done this before. Let's just apply and see what happens So within like 10 minutes of applying they gave me a call and they're like you come in tomorrow for an interview Yeah, let's do this so Interviewed for two days Then got a phone call got the job and i've been there ever since and now it's been almost three and a half years Well, that's awesome. So I have to ask Do you do you get to play on the course? I do get to play on the course and it's great I'm a little jealous. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not I'm not What was I say? I'm not big on I'm I'm I am a um, I'm a bill murray caddy shack golfer You know, I mean like i'm just oh, yeah, yeah. I'm not keeping score I'm just out there having fun Yeah, you're hitting the ball around maybe have a drink or two. It's all that really matters, right? Absolutely, you've been at tpc sawgrass you're doing that where did the bartender podcast really come in? Yeah, so Started for I took that job at tpc sawgrass Uh, we during and before the pandemic my friends and I love playing games Whether it's video games board games anything in between We kind of lost that as like our outlet during kofit because we couldn't hang out and roll dice or anything like that And When we moved back to florida We kind of realized that since florida was kind of wide open and it was the lawless land in the us like it always is Uh, we could play games together again And scott haupt who's on the show with us right now He's like you guys like dnd. I like dnd. You want to roll dice? Let's roll dice together. So We start rolling dice together. We start playing dnd And after drinking a bottle of midwinters a night dram I took some notes as we made some really awful puns about jokes like They were so bad that I can't even tell you what some of the other names were I probably don't remember after a bottle of midwinters, but uh bartenders was the one that stuck and I put a plan together put a business page got all the podcasting equipment And I was like hey guys like let's do this and they're like you did what? They're like we thought you were kidding I was like I don't I don't joke about this. This is awesome. This is a good idea Uh, so putting together, uh, we spent about a year putting all like the concepts together building out storylines characters I designed a website by myself stuff together, uh learned how to edit a podcast which shockingly is harder than you think Oh, okay. Yep. Uh-huh. Yeah, it's crazy. Um, but it all came together, right? And we've been doing that now We're coming up on year four So yeah, it's kind of been with me almost my whole journey at tpc sawgrass, but it's always been kind of like my passion project my creative outlet In bartending we talk a lot about our third space, right? You have your home you have work what's in between well, it's playing dnd with my friends It just happens that we record it, uh, and bring in some amazing hospitality professionals from around the country to play And I will say that you know, my exposure to your podcast comes from you know, my co-host here who uh featured in the uh Their guest shift. Yeah, the guest shift. Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, so we do two different types of segments. Uh, so we alternate every other week for the most part So one week we'll be playing dnd as bartenders Uh, and then the next week we have a segment called the mixing glass where we bring on guests hospitality professionals whether they're spirits brands or you know, uh cocktail competition aficionados like ingrid to talk about their experiences But the whole goal is to highlight people in the industry and give them a voice and share their knowledge right like Knowledge is something that should never be gate kept and so we want to break that down as much as possible Absolutely. I'm a big, uh, supporter of uh, no gatekeeping. Yeah, especially in this industry Yeah, it shouldn't exist. Like that is something that It's just an old tradition that i'm ready to burn with a torch like get rid of that crap Agreed In the first part of the show, you know, we kind of talked about the the history and and everything else with dungeons and dragons And I ended up having a lot of friends who love dungeons and dragons and play it and and you know, I have to admit I've i've i've never done it never played it All right. Well, now you have to go to the floor to play golf and play dungeons and dragons So I was gonna say right exactly, but okay for someone who's listening who's like me who who's never done this like Where's like, what are some good jumping in points? Like what do you need? What you what would you recommend? So really all you need Is a set of dice Right, you can you don't even have to buy those they're free you can go online you can type in Dice rolling emulator or you can ask siri on your phone. Hey siri roll some dice and she'll roll them for you like So the barrier of entry is zero And the most important thing at the end of the day is that you're basically telling a story With your friends it's collaborative storytelling, right you're working together you're creating a narrative you're going on a journey And i'm gonna let you in on a secret You can't really win dungeons and dragons Right, the only way you win is if you're having fun. It's not a video game There's no end, you know goal with like end scene credits and everything. Yeah, sure you fight some bosses in the same way, but It's not the same because if you're not having fun You can go play something else. It's like a job, right? If you don't like the job quick go work somewhere else The victories are the friends we made along the way you're winning already But as far as jumping in points it you got you got those dice you can get for free Find a group of friends and then the hardest part One of you actually has to read a few rules to be the dungeon master or the game master And as long as one of you agrees or gets guilt tripped or gaslit whatever, you know bribed Dms love bribes throwing that out there If you can do that you can play dungeons and dragons Can you tell us a little bit about your first experience playing dungeons and dragons? You said you've been doing it for a while. Do you remember your first campaign and your character? And how it all went? We did a first big campaign Scott who's now a player on the podcast was our first dungeon master and did the whole campaign for us and uh And my character was a tabaxi rogue and arcane trickster like to play pranks like bar pranks on people had a good time Even at that point I was bringing in elements of real life into the game because it's easier to be become a character and and role play whenever there's a little bit of you inside that character as well, right because Not everybody when they sit down Is a great actor or wants to do a funny voice or whatever So if you want to jump in and be somebody else be a part of you Uh, but man was it so much fun. We had no idea what we were doing. We broke so many rules And I think that made it more fun because we didn't know and we're like hey, scott I want to do this He said you can't but i'm gonna let you And like that's the secret right like to hook people and get them really involved in the game is a The person who's your dungeon master in that first game Really draws you in and entices you and hooks you and empowers you and lets you do all the cool stuff That you've always wanted to do right I remember our friend threw his sword to hit a goblin across the battlefield And then his next turn he was like, what do you want to do? And he's like, well, I want to go attack this goblin with my sword And scott was like no, you already threw it, you know You don't have a sword So you gotta go punch him, you know It's a whole bunch of like those kind of stories that happen because you really just learn to play everything together and have a good time I know that we've talked a lot about um, we wanted to get a Like a short dnd campaign off the ground A small group. I still want to do that. I just you know They're not enough hours in the day. It feels like you know, the hardest part about dnd isn't you know Creating your character and playing the game and learning some unspoken rules. It's about getting everybody together to play Coordination is so hard and the older you get The harder it is doesn't stop A hundred percent. I have friends in this town who I know on wednesday nights get together and do Dungeons and dragons at like Local watering holes and i'm just like I should really go You're the problem You have the friends. I am. You know they play. You know where they play. You know what time they play. You know what date they play So here's what are you talking to them? Well, because they've told me come out and play but here Okay, so this is a hard one Yeah, okay look so so here's the heart of it for me and and john You might be able to speak to this in ingrid because I can't be the only one who's like this I don't know that I can sit down and play a game for like Three or four hours. That's that's always been my my thing. It's like I don't know that I can do that You know But it sounds like this is maybe not just like damn it grandma you cheated monopoly, you know, it's it's it's like You know, what's crazy? We're adults We don't have to ask for permission to get up and use the bathroom and walk around the house when it's not your turn You can get up and move around you can bring snacks Actually, I think it's mandatory you bring snacks like you have to bring snacks and drinks and you're just you like like John said you have to have a good time. That's how you win dnd All right. All right, so look i'm gonna put it out that you know, they say if you if you Express your intentionality you're more likely to do it. So i'm gonna put it out there. I'm gonna try a evening of dungeons and dragons Before my next birthday, so that puts us on uh about a month a month schedule I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out And if you want my help, I have a a guy who's a dm He can just write a one-shot like a one Night wrap up the whole story in one night kind of game and we promised me that come on. No, I know No, we're teased get out of here Okay, to be fair, you're not wrong Gotcha All right. Well, listen, so Now that that's a thing that I have to do god, what I said You're welcome. I gave you homework. Am I the first guy to give you homework? Yeah, yeah, pretty much. Usually it's the other way around. So speaking of homework though Speaking of homework, let's jump in and talk about the cocktail creation prompt Um, ingrid did an amazing job writing this up I I have to give a lot of credit to her This is the her first episode that she's taken the reins on and written and done an amazing job So kudos to you for that, uh, but i'm gonna read it As your party prepares for an epic battle against a wyvern you and your role as a cleric are responsible for concocting the elixir that will restore your party's hit points along your journey You'll roll for spirit type and everything else is up to you. Don't let your party down Remember to consider the visual the taste and Ingenuity when crafting your potion of healing So that's what you got And then we sent you this table of spirit types and you rolled I rolled the most interesting spirit on the table Yep. What was that john? It was vodka I you know, I saw that I was like, oh But you know what? It's appropriate. Uh, my social media. It's vodka pays my bills So there you go. It worked out, you know, sometimes things just happen for a reason as we like to say the the dice tell the story So here we are Well, so speaking of telling us the story. Let's talk about your cocktail. All right, so I got a little uh creative with this cocktail. I was like, okay I've listened to your show I was like, I know that the judges pay a lot of attention to not just the name but the garnishes how you describe all of the ingredients There's a lot that goes into this. I felt like I was doing a cocktail competition where I have to talk as I go along the way And I was like, all right, let's Let's get into this Like so every bar has to make this cocktail First and foremost, right? So I know all the ingredients have to be approachable Also, the name has to be approachable people have to kind of get it right off the rip So I know that there's a classic cocktail called a corpse reviver Super easy sounds like a dnd thing already, right? Necromancy tie into it clerics, etc It's like, okay, let's just get punny. It worked for my podcast. Let's do it for this So I did the corpse Revivifier Because revivify is a dnd spell that can bring somebody back to life Which might happen in a fight with a wyvern, right? You might go down you might lose so you got to be ready to bring somebody back up not just heal them Keep them alive take it that next step further, which is way more important. So, uh, with our Incredible flavorful ingredient vodka, uh, gonna be real honest. I didn't even pick one Dealer's choice Yeah, three-quarters of an ounce of vodka. That's it. We got to use it I used a little bit of cokey americano Brought in some blue style montiato sherry to bring in some nutty notes some earthiness, right? If i'm bringing this corpse back to life, it's probably been underground We're gonna put all those elements back into it A little bit of honey syrup because shelf stable, baby You can find it anywhere if you're on an adventure, you can keep it in your pack longer Then I use some fresh lemon juice for balance a little bit of egg white in there to kind of Just zhuzh it up a little bit, right? Because otherwise the drink was just It's just a little almost too nutty a little too earthy. So I had to kind of pull that out a little bit And of course, it's refreshing, right? That's the prompt For some mint there Mint's never gone poorly with a little bit of honey and lemon. That's that's of course your vivifier And an awesome cocktail. I have to say I was I was really really digging it, but my opinion doesn't matter It matters to me. Well, it's all the judge. It's all the judge. That's what we care about here So I feel like things like this the ai really enjoys because it is Great at telling a story. Yeah, you know, we're talking about you know, uh, why it did certain things Ingrid, do you want to uh, give us a rundown on that cocktail? So the ai cocktail Starts with two ounces of cognac We had it do the same thing that you had to do, which was Roll for spirit Um, and the role that it got was cognac So starting with two ounces of cognac One ounce of red beet shrub, which is a very earthy vibrant It described it as the lifeblood of the potion Yeah, sure Half an ounce of yellow chartreuse Three-fourths of an ounce of lemon juice A fourth of an ounce of honey syrup Uh, two to one as well Um, and then topped with a sparkling mineral water Water for vitality And effervescence You know, I almost almost went like a champagne Uh, bubbles route I was like, oh, you know, that's refreshing And then, um, it's garnished with a rosemary sprig and a lemon wheel That's boring To give it some aromatics Um, the ai named its cocktail Wyvern's blessing That wyvern's not going to give you a blessing No, it's not It's going to get you I will say I didn't talk about my garnish too Uh, I did a little bit of bee pollen on top to kind of tie back to the honey And then if you're not familiar with skeleton leaves Uh, they're like basically these ghostly leaves that you like strip all of the uh, the chlorophyll out of Uh, so they're perfectly clear to like resemble the wyvern's wings All right, with that on the table, we've got everything out Uh, let's talk about some scores So you're familiar with our show We have three kind of big buckets of points We have uh, 50 possible points for taste Uh, 30 possible points for appearance Uh, 20 possible points for originality Our judge is my wonderful wife Uh, she has the palette that, you know, I can tell you what I like But she can tell you what's actually tasty Um, so we're going to run through this We'll start with you Um, on the taste front You received a A rather solid 43 points Okay, all right Appearance Once again, talking about our garnish And and just the general, you know Uh, presentation on this cocktail 28 points Let's go Originality 15 points Um, you know, there's a A certain amount of We'll get to the judge's notes They were kind of like This tastes like something I've probably had before Um, so It's replicatable in every bar Absolutely Absolutely So the ai 44 points in taste Wow 27 points in appearance And to be fair, I don't think a lot of that was on the garnish side I think it was more of the Are you sure? That's so crazy I've never heard of a lemon wheel and a rosemary spring I was gonna say I mean, usually it's a winner Usually it's a guaranteed You know, it's a ringer But uh And then uh Originality actually Uh, ended up scoring a 19 Oh, wow Um So Look at that Your total was 86 points And the ai Came in with a total of 90 points Wow So unfortunately In this uh In this game The ai has bested you, John Yeah, that's okay It's collaborative storytelling It's about the journey we had on the way There you go Maybe I'll go drink my potion And I'll come back to life for round two You know That's it Absolutely Just a little bit of info from the judge So in discussing your cocktail They did note that You know, your cocktail was incredibly well balanced And enjoyable It was slightly less complex than the opposing cocktail And it lost a few points on uniqueness As it tasted as though it was something they'd had You know, in the past The inclusion of the skeleton leaves on the garnish Was absolutely unique Um They actually Uh They thought This looks so much like skeletons That maybe it wouldn't bode well for the drinker Sure You know what I mean? Um And so They're already dead We're bringing it back to life Right, right I was like Well, you can't get more skeleton-y It's fine It's fine Um Discussing the ai cocktail Uh They did describe it as complex Well balanced Um Between the inclusion of a vegetable shrub Honey And medicinal liqueur Talking about the The chartreuse The idea that this would be a restorative potion Kind of makes sense Along with the Slight effervescence Brought by the sparkling mineral water They even commented While the garnish isn't super inventive It was suitable for the cocktail So Like I said The ai was getting nothing On the The garnish side of it So much As just the The overall of it Seemed to work So No, of course It makes sense And like For me The flavors from the ai cocktail Great flavors Great flavors But Like most of them They just need a little A little something Mm-hmm From a dnd perspective I was also curious to see If you or the ai Did a cocktail Specifically that was red Because healing potions Are notoriously You know Red Especially in dnd So I kind of enjoyed The ai produced one That was that color Fair point I was also a little surprised That it used Beet juice You know what I mean Um Because like I've had it You know Throw out more like Uh You know Things like Palm Or you know Other stuff like that And I was a little surprised That it went with Beet juice as a You know And did it as a shrub Uh It was a really nice touch Yeah Of course It was a neat little ingredient Especially the fact that like An ai is choosing shrubs Like That's It's kind of neat Like That's That's food for that So It's not super uncommon Um Part of it is like How you prime the ai With like What it's Background is You know If you just roll up And say Make me a cocktail You know It'll be like Here's the most boring cocktail ever But if you prime it a little bit You can actually get it to So you're role playing With the ai You're a craft cocktail barter Working in new york You worked a 20 hour double yesterday And you're waking up hungover For your 7am brunch open today Okay You joke But you're not far off From the way that I actually do approach You've already played dnd then I'm just gonna throw this out there You already have the skills man That's it Well listen John I wanna say Thank you so much For being our guest this week And um If people wanna keep up with you Where can they find you On social media Yeah absolutely So you can check me out On social media At Vodka pays my pills Check out my podcast At Bard Tenders B-A-R-D T-E-N D-E-R-S Check out our website At www.bardtender.com We love hearing from you We love getting 5 star reviews Just like this podcast 5 stars only Don't you dare give 4, 3, 2, or 1 5 stars Only And leave a review Tell us what you think It's helped we grow the show I know that Just from talking to you Before the show We're here for the listeners You know At the end of the day And like We love doing what we do Because it enriches somebody's life And gives them value And you know Maybe they learn something Along the way too Absolutely Well once again Thank you so much For being with us On this episode And that's us signing off Saying Drink well Be well Make sure you roll with advantage