Welcome back to another episode of Drinking With Robots. I'm your host, Rob Nester. And I'm your co-host, Ingrid Folkers. November 23rd is National Espresso Day, so we're going to be talking all about its history, how we got that diminutive little cup of delicious bean juice, and how it ended up in one of the most popular cocktails of the modern era. A little later, Patrick Dunmire from Raleigh's Own Foundation will be stopping by to battle our AI challenger. We've challenged both to imagine an alternative universe where the espresso martini was never created because their cocktail was already the dominant espresso cocktail. Stick around to find out what they've come up with. But first, a word from our sponsor. Upgrade your cocktail game with Remedy Cocktail Company's handcrafted bitters. Order online at RemedyCocktailCompany.com and choose from over 20 flavors. Elevate your drink experience today. So, Ingrid, how much do you know about coffee? Well, I know it's delicious. I drink coffee almost every day. And the amount of research I've done into beverages in general, specifically spirits, beer, wine, I'm kind of embarrassed to say I haven't done as much research on coffee, especially since I've spent some time in Australia. And if you don't know, Australia has become this major coffee hub in the world. So, until I began doing research for this episode, sad to say I was not as knowledgeable as I should have been. Well, the only advantage I have is we did an episode last season that was actually about coffee in general. You know, I know today we're talking about espresso, but I think this is like a little bit of like background that I can provide. So, the history with coffee, right? So, coffee starts in Ethiopia. And kind of the myth, the story, the legend is that there was this goat herder named Caldy. And he started noticing that when his goats would eat from this certain tree, that they would get kind of rambunctious. You know, they'd get, you know, doing goat things. And he tried to bury from this tree. And sure enough, he felt like this, like, surge of energy. And, you know, lo and behold, he had discovered coffee. And so, you know, it wasn't long after that that, you know, coffee kind of started to take off. But, you know, the thing that I find really ironic is, so the word coffee, right, comes from this Arabic word, kawah. And that's a type of wine, right? Well, in Islam, you're prohibited from drinking alcohol. And so, ultimately, coffee became huge in, you know, the Arab world. And it's really just this other way of, like, you know, catching a different type of buzz, I feel like. Yeah, it makes total sense that it would start in Ethiopia from the articles I've read. Mocha, if that sounds familiar to your coffee drinking ear. Mocha is a port city in Yemen, which is right across the Red Sea from Ethiopia, which became a major hub of the coffee trade, especially for the Venetian traders that started bringing coffee to Europe. But Europe didn't really embrace coffee immediately, though. I mean, it was met with suspicion. You know, we talked about this in the episode last season. Yeah, it was labeled as a bitter invention of Satan. Can you picture it? Like, you know, these clergymen warning their congregation against this mysterious dark brew. But, you know, the funny part is, is there was a pope, Clement VIII, who kind of intervened. I guess someone finally made him a cup of coffee and he was, like, so delighted by it that he allegedly blessed it and declared it a Christian beverage. And just like that, coffee was, like, huge in Europe. Yeah, and at that time, coffee houses started to pop up everywhere in Europe. They became kind of this third place. Wait, what's a third place? So, it's considered a social hub outside of the home and outside of work where community can kind of come together. So, it's like cheers. Essentially, if you think of it like this, it's kind of what coffee houses have become today, where artists, philosophers, and regular folk just come together, all united by their love of coffee. Or their need to just study. Yeah. Or their need for Wi-Fi. But the problem was, you know how long coffee takes to percolate? Oh, it's forever. Forever. It's too long for the amount of people that were lining up at these coffee shops. Baristas were struggling to keep up. They were constantly in the weeds. Trying to meet demand of customers. And also, as a result of that, coffee was commonly being overextracted, which results in a much more bitter brew. So, the question became, how can we make better coffee faster? Yeah, and I really think from the articles that I read, you know, in talking about espresso specifically, it took until the Industrial Revolution to really answer this question. During the Industrial Revolution, one of the major things that you see is the use of steam power, you know, steam locomotives, steam engines. And in fact, the word espresso itself means to be like expressed or pressed out. And so, that's the perfect word to capture, like this method where, you know, you're forcing hot water under pressure through finely ground coffee. Speaking of steam, Angelo Moriando was the first to create a machine intended for rapid coffee production, which was born out of frustration of the slow coffee service in his family's hotels and cafes. Imagine the amazement of customers receiving coffee in a fraction of the usual time. Oh, absolutely. And now, he only used that, like, in his family's places, right? Correct. It was never mass produced. Yeah, because it was in 1901, the article that I was reading talked about Milanese inventor Luigi Bezzera, you know, and he took Moriando's concept and kind of refined it, right? So, he modified the design to brew single cups because, you know, Moriando was looking at, like, you know, just getting everybody's coffee, you know, for like an evening service or something like that, where Bezzera was able to modify it so that you could have multiple servings simultaneously, you know, it enhanced the freshness and, you know, you were able to kind of, like, personalize that cup of coffee you were making. He discovered that using finer grounds actually increased the resistance, and that was essential for building pressure and extracting more flavor. So, you know, think of it like squeezing juice out of a fruit, you know, the finer the grind, the more intense the flavor that was extracted under this pressure. Exactly. And Bezzera ended up selling his design to Desidero Pavoni, which they actually collaborated together to enhance the machine even further and began mass producing espresso machines under the La Pavoni brand. Yeah, so I was reading, like, a history of, my Google search history looks so weird doing this show, but I was looking at an article that was, like, the history of espresso machines, and the first one they made was called the Ideale, and it's like this, you know, people, we're like, it's a marvel of engineering for its era, but this thing could brew up to a thousand cups of espresso per hour, and I'm just like, that is amazing to me. That's a true game changer. Absolutely. On that note, Francesco Illy contributed to the development of espresso with the first automatic coffee machine, the Aletta, which used compressed air instead of steam, but it was Achille Gaggia who truly transformed espresso making. Yeah, so post-World War II, around 1948 or so, Gaggia introduced his lever-operated machine, and that brought us a lot closer to the espresso experience we know today. Part of the reason for that is it used water that was slightly less than boiling. If you've ever met a coffee snob, they're always like, it must be 212 degrees, but apparently that really did help to prevent, like, the burnt taste that earlier steam-based machines sometimes produced. He also added this spring-powered piston lever, and that enabled, like, much higher pressure without relying solely on steam, so that allowed for, like, this better extraction of flavors. Yeah, and because of that extraction process, it created what we now know as a crema, which we know and love today, but at the onset of this type of extraction, people saw crema as a defect before Gaggia marketed it as a natural coffee cream, which changed customer perception and set a new standard for what the coffee was meant to be. It also created this richer, smoother beverage, which was more flavorful and aromatic than ever before. So it's kind of funny looking at, like, the idea of crema, you know, it goes from this, oh, we don't want that, to, you know, oh, you must have that now. Because, like, could you imagine getting a shot of espresso with no crema now? I would be so disappointed. Let's just send it back. Or an espresso martini with no foam on top? Oh, sacrilege. An abomination. But, you know, it's funny because now that, you know, this idea of, like, hey, we can make coffee, you know, faster, better, stronger. Wait, that's a song. It became kind of this integral part of Italian culture. You had things like espresso bars that kind of popped up. And, you know, we talked about, you know, coffee houses earlier as, like, the third space. In Italy, you know, that became the third space. It was, like, everybody, you know, went there, not just for the espresso or the coffee, but, you know, for community. And then, you know, we're talking about post-World War II. You started to see this mass immigration, you know, of Italians out of Italy into, you know, North America, Australia, Europe. And, you know, kind of going into the 50s and 60s, you had the rise of, like, the beatniks and poets and jazz. And, you know, it was all cigarette smoke and coffee. And, you know, it was perfect timing for this ascendancy of espresso. Yeah. And from that, we get so many great beverages that we still have today, like cappuccino, which is equal parts espresso, steamed milk and foam, which I don't know if you've been to Italy, but it's traditionally enjoyed only in the morning, never after 11 a.m. And never with meals. We've got the latte, which is kind of reign supreme here in the States, which is espresso with steamed milk and a small amount of foam. And then we also have the flat white, which is my personal favorite coffee order, which has yet to kind of gain popularity in the States, as opposed to other espresso-loving countries like Australia. The flat white is espresso with steamed milk and a thin layer of milk foam on top. So then we have a macchiato, which is a shot of espresso stained with, like, a little dash of milk foam. You know, really flavorful, you know, nice little pick-me-up. You have the Americano, which is espresso diluted with hot water. I was in Europe a couple of years ago, and this became my, like, salvation because, like you, I'm a daily drinker of coffee, and it has to be black. And I would find these espresso machines, you know, in the hotels and whatnot. And, you know, after the first day where I accidentally filled an entire coffee cup full of espresso and drank that, I realized with shaking hands that it was better to dilute it. So these are my favorite when I go there, and that's actually kind of the background of that one. It's supposed to mimic, like, that drip coffee or that percolated coffee that American soldiers would have had. So, you know, kind of came around, you know, World War II era as well. And then you have the long black, which is, you know, it's just like an Americano. It just has to do with the order in which you put things in. So with an Americano, the espresso goes in first, and then it's diluted with hot water. With a long black, you have hot water, and then you add the espresso in last. You know, it gives a little bolder flavor and a more rounded taste. Yeah, and espresso's influence isn't just about coffee. It's bled into the world of bartending, too. There are brands like Grind, Luxardo, and Mr. Black that are espresso liqueurs, while there are also espresso-infused vodkas like Van Gogh Vodka and Three Olives that are pretty common in most bars. Yeah, and I really think a lot of, you know, the popularity of espresso as a flavor in cocktails really comes back to one person, and that's got to be Dick Bradsell. So for those of you not in the know who may be listening, Bradsell was this bartender in London's Soho district in the 1980s. So, you know, you got to think it's like, you know, early 80s, London's Soho. There's probably the Clash or the Smiths playing, and, you know, here's Dick Bradsell kind of leading the cocktail renaissance of the, you know, along with all of his compatriots of the era. And there's the classic story. So the story is that a young model walks into the bar. Which model was it? So stories differ. It was either Kate Moss was one that was, the name was floated around, or Naomi Campbell was the other. Which is weird because there's a story that I'll link to in the show notes that has an oral history of the espresso martini, and people were like, nah, it was neither of them. So who knows? I bet it was just like a lesser known model. And after the fact, they wanted to tie like a supermodel's name to it. So that's what happened. But the story goes, a model walks into a bar. Sounds like a joke. I know. And they hit Bradsell with the, make me something that will wake me up and fuck me up. And so he combined vodka with a fresh brewed espresso, espresso liqueur, and simple syrup, shaken over ice, and strained into a martini glass. Yeah, and so that oral history that he was talking about was kind of cool because, you know, it wasn't originally known as espresso martini. It was the vodka espresso, which, I don't know, it doesn't have the same. It doesn't have the ring to it. Right, exactly. And then apparently, at some point, it was called the pharmaceutical stimulant, which just sounds weird. Yeah, too clinical. Right, exactly. But, you know, eventually it became known as that espresso martini. And, you know, regardless of the name, it became just a mass hit. I think it's had resurgences in popularity probably at least twice since it was created. Yeah, constantly. It's constantly on a rotation of cycling, trending to not trending, trending to not trending ever since. But, you know, I was reading about the fact that apparently it is the single most photographed cocktail on social media. Oh, I believe it. You know, it's got that sleek appearance. It's got that crema that we talked about. You know, the coffee bean garnish. You know, you can kind of see why it's an Instagram favorite. And you know what the coffee beans represent, right? No, what is that? Health, wealth, and happiness. Oh, I can do it. So, if a bartender ever serves you an espresso martini without the three coffee beans, that means they're not wishing you health, wealth, and happiness. Wait, should I send it back? Send it back. No. I was going to say, I want a bartender on record telling me to send a drink back. I would never. I would never. All right, well, look. This has been a great conversation all about espresso and its influences and everything. You know, it's amazing to think it's gone from like these like humble origins in Ethiopia through, you know, the entire world and the influence that it's had on culture and everything else. With that said, stick around after the break as guest Patrick Dunmire from Raleigh's Foundation goes up against our AI challenger. Let's see who can create an espresso-based cocktail that would have been the dominant cocktail before the espresso martini was invented. Are you a full-time professional bartender who thinks they have a full-time bartender who thinks they have what it takes to defeat our AI challenger? If so, we'd love to talk to you. Reach out to us by sliding into our DMs. We're drinkingwithrobots on Instagram or emailing us at bookings at DrinkingWithRobots.com. We just wanted to say thank you for listening so far. We'd love for you to connect with us on social media. You can find us at drinkingwithrobots on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and Threads. While you're at it, go ahead and hit the subscribe button wherever you're listening to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. Also, check us out at DrinkingWithRobots.com. Hey, thanks for sticking around. We've got Patty Dunmire from Raleigh's Own Foundation with us today. Patty, thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. So, Patty, tell us a little bit about you. Are you a native North Carolinian? Yes. So, I grew up in Garner, North Carolina. I was out there. We actually was in Willow Springs for a little while, so a little bit outside of Garner. My dad was a pastor at a local church there. My mom worked there as well. So, my dad's actually the reason that I got into coffee in the first place. He was a big coffee person, and he's the one that would make pour-overs at the house when I was middle school, high school. Got himself a little espresso machine. He would make shots of Cafe Bustelo because we'd wake up in the morning and he's like, I'm ready to go. So, I started making coffee at the house, and then I was a regular at this coffee shop two blocks away from our house. And when I turned 18, they were like, you want to work here, right? I was like, sure. So, that's kind of when I was like, well, this is really fun. I like making drinks for people, and I like serving people and hanging out. I could just do that, but on this side of the bar and make money off it. It's a good time. So, I have a question. So, I've always enjoyed good coffee, but I don't know that I could walk in and step behind a coffee bar and pull a good shot of espresso or make proper coffee for the masses. Like, I know what I like. Was it a learning curve for you, or had you been going enough that you kind of had seen what was good? It's definitely a learning curve. It's also like, what quality are you going for? Because there are different levels of coffee shop. You know what I mean? Like, you can walk into some places, and you're going to get a drip coffee. Anyone can pull a shot of espresso. It doesn't mean it's going to be a good shot of espresso. Like, for the most part, machines will have some sort of preset, and, you know, you'll put in a certain amount, tamp it down, throw it in, it'll be done, and they dump it in a cup. And then you get to levels, like when I worked at Juul in downtown Raleigh, where, you know, you're putting 19.5 grams of ground espresso ground at a certain level, and it's going in for 28 seconds, and it's coming out at 35 grams, and it tastes like peaches. You know what I mean? Oh, so it could get that specific. Yeah, it could get extremely specific. In terms of dialing in an espresso machine, how did you learn how to do that? Was it just developing your palate and trial and error? Yes. And so the way we did it at Juul, and obviously I did it before at other coffee shops to a certain extent, because if you're not at least somewhat dialing in, it's straight water coming out, or it's not coming out at all, or it tastes super rancid, that kind of thing. Then when I got into Juul, it's more of like, you know, okay, this doesn't taste right. Let's change one element. Let's change the grind. Okay, let's try it again. Okay, it's not tasting right. Let's change the weight going in and see and kind of wiggle that around. Like we would spend 45 minutes to an hour while opening, dialing in the espresso. And you do that every open? Every open throughout the shift. Oh, wow. So Juul did a very long brunch. I think it was like 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. or something. And the openers would do it. But then, you know, every hour or two hours, constantly tasting the espresso to make sure it's still at the level we want it. Because, you know, humidity in the room will change it. You know, like there's a lot of different elements that can change how that and that grind might not be consistent throughout the day. It might change off a little bit on the machine. So, yeah, just constantly tasting and making sure it's good. And, yeah, you can pull out just crazy notes out of coffee. Because most coffees, when you get them, will have, you know, the notes that they got from it. And you can kind of use that as guidelines. So, like, for example, one time we got a counterculture coffee called Kabewa. And one of the notes was grape candy. And we're like, that's really specific. And we were bored. And we liked coffee and playing with it. So we spent all shift trying to get it to taste like grape candy. And we got it to taste like a grape Jolly Rancher. Like, to a T. And we had a regular come in. And he's like, how's the guest espresso today? I was like, it tastes like a grape Jolly Rancher. He's like, what the fuck did you just say? I was like, grape Jolly Rancher. And he's like, I'll get one. And if it tastes like that, I'll come back down. And I'll put a $10 bill in your tip jar. I was like, okay. And he goes. He gets his, you know, espresso. Goes up. Reads a book for a while. Gets some food. Leaves. And he's just like, fuck you. And just put it in the jar and walks out. He's like, that's right, man. Well, you know, so this is one of the things that I think we both kind of figured out doing research for the first part of the show where we talk about kind of the history of espresso. And the history of the espresso machine itself. We found out that crema wasn't even, it was considered a defect. Yeah, a defect until Gaja comes along and is like, oh no, this is natural coffee foam and people fell in love with it. Yeah, yeah. Now, I have a question. As you're dialing in these machines and constantly checking to make sure that the flavor profile is accurate throughout service, how much espresso would you say that you consumed on an average brunch shift? Oh my God. Enough to induce heart palpitations. Just a ridiculous. So, it's funny too because not only were we constantly tasting this espresso, we were also just constantly drinking coffee on the side too. Like we had this whole thing that we would do, you know, I mean, it's a restaurant, so you're going to have like big waves of making drinks and then they're ordering food and other things and then it comes back around. And so, after a wave, we would pour a little ounce of milk and a little ounce of cold brew concentrate that was way stronger than the stuff that I make and a little bite of cookie. And you would shoot your coffee and then you would eat your cookie and you would drink your little milk and keep going. And then you would finish a shift and you would have to, we would go to a bar right next door and sit down and immediately all take a shot just to like calm our bodies down. Because we're just into the shift, you're just like shaking, like actually just moving so fast, you're like, what is going on? Yeah, I just looked up how much espresso is too much espresso. And this website says most healthy persons can normally consume three to six shots of espresso and I bet you guys were doing lots more than that. Way more than that. I think I looked it up at one point when I worked there, I was like, how much espresso would it take to kill you? Like kind of thing. And I think it was like, if you drank 34 Monster Energies, which is equivalent to this much, like it was like something like a ridiculous number of shots. And it was one of those, like, you wouldn't be able to ingest that much to kill, but there is like a level where you reach of this, it's, it's like this weird, like Nirvana hellscape where you're just like, I'm the fastest person in the world and everything is exploding around me. Like what's going on? So apparently our AI friends tell us that it is 76 to 156 shots of espresso. So it's a, you can't get enough in you to actually, once you reach a certain point, your body is like, we're no longer ingesting this, but. Too much of anything can kill you because too much water can kill you, you know, if you just drink too much water. So, I mean, there's a limit to everything. What drew you to move to cocktails? I, so I worked at Jewel and obviously like really enjoyed, very passionate about like the creation and being able to like, you know, pull out these specific flavors. And then I also got introduced to sort of like the bar side when I was there because there was, you know, as a restaurant, there was like a cocktail menu. It wasn't like, you know, crazy or anything, but we also did a coffee flight cocktails, which I hated because it was basically, you're making like three tiny cocktails for like one drink. And it was like 12 bucks. And I was like, this is not enough money. But I got really interested in just like the cocktail side. And that's when I, you know, when I first turned 21, I immediately was just like, I want to learn about cocktails. And so I would go, like, I would sit at Fox Liquor Bar and I would just be like, make me a drink. Tell me why you made it. Tell me what's in it. And I would do the same thing at like Foundation. And then I just got more and more interested into that. And then I started working at Sir Walter Coffee in downtown Raleigh. I was the one of the opening staff there. And I had a fairly decent amount of coffee experience compared to everyone else. So I was teaching everyone their coffee and I was also learning about cocktails at the same time. And then after that, I was approached with the opportunity to do Postmaster, which is where, you know, I started bar manager. I was doing all that stuff and just got really excited about like, it was like a new, a reawakening of like, ooh, new drink stuff to make, you know, like really crazy and fun. And, you know, coffee, I'd sort of hit this like almost kind of ceiling of like, yeah, I'm doing this thing and I'm really good at it. But it's kind of reached this point of like, yes, I can do this and I'm good at it. And I've gotten pretty consistent with it. There's not a lot more creativity for me. And then for cocktails, it was like a whole new world of like, oh, my God, there's so many different liquors and syrups and juices and stuff and like classics and like other stuff like that that you can just branch out on. And still to this day, I'm just like constantly learning about new drinks. I'm like, what is that? And I'm like, oh, this is this cocktail. I've never heard of that. That's really cool. How long have you been at Foundation? I've been at Foundation for a little over three and a half years now. I started early 2021. And where were you before Foundation? So before Foundation, I was at Bittersweet around the corner for a little while, you know, doing coffee and cocktails over there. And then before that, I was managing a restaurant in downtown Cary. Tell us a little bit more about your time at Bittersweet and your experience working both coffee and cocktails. Sure. So Bittersweet, fantastic spot. I still love going there. It was really fun for me because I had previous coffee experience, but I had not been in a coffee setting in probably three or four years. So being back behind, you know, a place with cocktails, which is my new passion, mixed in with, you know, having an espresso machine behind the bar. Super fun to play around with, you know, going back to like making craft cocktails, but also being able to like pour, you know, really fun latte art, you know, making someone a cortado. That was really fun. Kind of the best of both worlds for me for a little bit. But, you know, I got the opportunity at Foundation and that's still my favorite bar in Raleigh. Talking about Bittersweet, another great spot for that like after dinner, dessert, cocktail, you know, kind of thing. Yeah. Like you said, like late night, I send people there all the time. They're like, oh, we're about to go to dinner here and then we might come back here. I'm like, go to dinner, wherever you're going. Pop by Bittersweet, get a fun little dessert, get a little cocktail or something. And then you can finish the night with us if you want or bounce around after that. But yeah, we send people there all the time because they're fantastic and the desserts are fantastic. Kim's always making really good stuff. Louis is always putting out really good cocktails. Like, yeah. Yeah. And it's right around the corner from where you are now. I feel like there's so much crossover between coffee and cocktails. There are some creators that I follow on Instagram that are doing coffee competitions. And I feel that they are very comparable to the creators that I follow and friends of mine in the industry that do cocktail competitions. I feel like we can grow and learn from each other. Oh, absolutely. And there is a direct pipeline from baristas to bartenders. Oh, for sure. Every cocktail bar you go to, probably one of them worked in a coffee shop at some point. Yeah. I had the opposite. I started in a bar and then eventually found myself working at two bars throughout my tenure behind the bar that just happened to have espresso machines. And so, I kind of had to learn that after the fact of learning the intricacies of bartending. So, that was my personal journey. Do you think that informed your cocktailing better than having had that as a precursor? Like, did you think about the coffee more as just an ingredient or as a platform? You know what I mean? Because I think if maybe if you come from a background of I did this for years and it was a thing I focused on, I wonder if you wouldn't hold it as a little more precious, you know? I agree. I do feel like I might not have delved as deep as I should have. I did view it more of like, oh, this is just an ingredient that I use in cocktails or making espresso drinks, lattes, cappuccinos, what have you. As opposed to really viewing it as an art form in and of itself and diving into the intricacies of what pulling a shot of espresso is and really understanding, dialing in a machine and pulling out those specific flavors. I feel like if I had had the background and started in coffee, I would have a much bigger appreciation for it to start with. Right. Yeah, I could see that. I feel like, and I don't mean this, these listeners don't write me hate mail, but I feel like coffee nerds are a special type of nerd. You know, they are incredibly precise on, like my wife and I know someone from where she went to college. This guy got into coffee and then he got really into coffee and he started roasting his own. Home roasting. There he is. At home. It's always that. It's like the nuances start. It starts like, oh, I'm really into going to this coffee shop and getting their specific coffee. I'm going to take, I'm going to start making pour overs to the house. I'm going to start making espresso at the house. I'm going to start roasting my own coffee. It kind of like, it's a, it's such a nuanced thing. But yeah, when someone like gets into it heavily, it's like, they're going to talk about it and they're going to know what they're talking about because they researched everything. Well, and then it got weird because apparently he started like doing this thing where his morning cup of coffee took all night to make. It was like drop by drop. I mean, it was literally like, he sent a picture of this apparatus and I don't know what it's called. I don't, you know, I couldn't tell you, but it was like in his bedroom and it took up an entire like, you know, three foot table, you know, of set up. Is it like a tall tower situation? Yeah, I think so. And they had like slow drip cold brew, which is fantastic. And if you're ever in a shop that it looks like a, like a weird, really weird, big hourglass almost. But essentially, instead of like letting the water sit in grinds and then straining that out, you'll have grinds, you'll have ice above that and you'll have like just an empty pot beneath and it'll just slowly and you can change the amount that it drips. It'll just slowly drip, hit that pass through really slow and then go into the bottom. And it's, it's a way less, um, like less acidic cold brew, which cold brew is already not very acidic anyways, but it's like, it's just so like, like velvety and like, it's delicious. I can't think of, uh, trying to think if there's any shops around here. I think like, I don't know if gray squirrel and Carver is still around. I think they had one. I think new world cafe and North Raleigh might have one. It's not something you see like super often because it is a labor of love type situation, but it is a really good cup of coffee afterwards. Yeah. As fancy as I get on a daily basis is, uh, a French press. That's, that's, I'm, I'm good with that. Nothing wrong with that. I love a French press. So, you know, talking all about coffee and then the idea of bringing espresso into cocktails, you know, the ubiquitous cocktails. That everyone knows and loves or hates is the classic espresso martini brought to us by our friend. Dick Bradsell was the inventor of the espresso martini. Uh, the story goes, he was working at a bar and a model walks in and hits him with a, I want something that'll wake me up and fuck me up. So I think it's hilarious that the, you know, who was the model is like the biggest question out of this entire story. Right. Cause it had to be somebody famous. It's like, you know, that's the whole conceit of it. Is it, was it Kate Moss? Was it Naomi Campbell? Yeah. Realistically it was probably just some random model because I, you know, we were talking about the article that I found in the British version of GQ magazine. Yeah. That's like an oral history of the espresso martini. And he apparently had that cocktail earlier than most people realized. And somebody did the math and it was like, well, Kate Moss would have been eight. And then Naomi Campbell would have been like 11. Yeah. The math isn't math. And it was probably some no name model that walked into the bar and asked for this. And the story is better if it's a famous model. Of course. Right. But could you imagine being that model and knowing that, that, that you were the person and then like. You're not famous enough to be attributed to it. Right. She's telling her grandkids now. She's like, I was the model for the espresso martini. I was the muse for the espresso martini. And everybody's like, sure, Nana. Sure. Let's get you to bed. Let's get you to bed. But, you know, it's, it's one of those cocktails that I think people love to love, love to hate, love to hate to love, love to, love to hate, you know, love to photograph. Yeah, absolutely. So now I'm going to ask you folks, because I am always on this side of the bar. When you work in places and people come in and ask for an espresso martini, what's your feeling on that? My personal opinion, I don't mind at all. So for me, it's like, it's, it's the, the new popularized version of a vodka Red Bull. It's, I want some energy, but also I want it to taste good. And it's, it's just a better version of it. You know, it's, I want, I want to stay awake, but I want to get fucked up. Like normally at foundation, if a table comes in and one person orders an espresso martini, I'm making four espresso martinis. Oh yeah, for sure. And I can batch four espresso martinis and make them a lot faster than a table that sits down and orders one of each cocktail off the seasonal menu. Now there's nothing wrong with that. I want people to try our cocktails, but if a ticket comes in, it's like five espresso martinis. I'm like, all right, that's sick. This is so easy. Also, again, I worked at Bittersweet, so I'm like 12 espresso martinis. I can do that with my eyes closed and my hands behind my back. I'll figure out how to do it faster than you. And, you know, we do the whole coffee grounds on top, make it really pretty. Yeah. It's, it's going to be Instagram worthy. It's going to taste really good. It's going to give you caffeine. I don't mind at all. Now, how about you? I'm of the same mindset. I don't mind. I also worked at Bittersweet, fun fact. That's where we actually met. Yeah. That's where we met. I just remember that. Yeah. So I worked at Bittersweet too. So I'm well-versed in how to make a lot of espresso martinis really quickly. At the new bar I just opened, High Rail in downtown Raleigh, we have one of those newfangled nitrous espresso martini machines. Like the kettle one? The kettle one ones. So I definitely don't mind it now. And that machine is so interesting to me because I was expecting it to have a nitrogen tank on the side of it and it doesn't. It pulls nitrogen out of the ambient air around it. Oh, that's pretty cool. And that's insane to me. Oh, that is amazing. Science, right? Yeah, right. I've always wondered about those. Is it like a pre-mix that goes into the machine? It's got a tank on the side that you can fill with whatever you want. You batch it yourself. You don't have to buy a kettle one pre-mix. No, I'm sure there's something you can buy from them and just do that. I'm sure they do well enough on the branding alone of just having that on the bar or back bar. Absolutely. But honestly, you can put whatever you want in it. Right now, obviously, we're doing a traditional kettle one classic espresso martini. But if we want to get weird with it and do some amaros or something, some uncommon ingredients, we have the flexibility to be creative. That'd be really fun, actually. Yeah, absolutely. So honestly, I order all the espresso martinis you want. I can just pull a lever and top it with the coffee beans and send it out. It takes no time at all for me. I don't even have to shake it. Oh, look at you too. You know, the idea of being creative with the espresso martini or figuring out how to how to riff on that and have fun with it brings us to our prompt for this episode. The prompt for this episode was in an alternate universe, Dick Bradsell never created the espresso martini because your espresso cocktail had already taken the world by storm. Let's hear what it is. And so we've got your entrant, Patty, and then we have the A.I.'s cocktail. I'm going to go ahead and let you talk about your cocktail. Give us a rundown of the specs, you know, what we need to do to make it. Then I'll do the same for the A.I., and then we'll talk about our scoring. Sure. So mine, I guess to start off, this is somewhat controversial. I don't think espresso is a great ingredient for cocktails. And it's not readily available at most places unless you have an espresso machine, which if you're serving good espresso, you're dropping over $10,000 to have an espresso machine. And you're also probably going to have to involve coffee service at that point. Like if we had an espresso machine at foundation and we were, A, I don't know where it'd go because that bar is so small. But also like doing coffee service on top would be a lot volume wise. And espresso, you know, it's a hot thing. You're throwing into a cold drink. It's going to start watering it down too fast. If you want to get a good head on it, you're going to have to shake it a lot. We're just going to water it down more. If you hold espresso, the oils will start to like oxidize. So I did cold brew concentrate instead. I think that's just a more shelf-sable consistent product that is very easy to hold behind a bar. But I did a little flip. So I did a dropper of Bitterman's mole bitters. I did an ounce and a half of Bacardi rum, Bacardi 8. I did a half ounce of Oak City Amaretto, an ounce of the cold brew concentrate that I make, which is just two quarts of water per pound of coffee. Very easy to make. An ounce of rich brown sugar simple, pinch of salt, because I always throw in a pinch of salt, and then a whole egg and just shake the fuck out of it. And then I did some grated dark chocolate on top. Did you have a title for this cocktail? I didn't actually really have a title for it. So one thing I always love is the AI is very conscientious. It names every cocktail. It names cocktails. Okay. So the AI cocktail, it's calling the Midnight Thunder. Ooh. Yes. So it was, one of the things I've done this season, I give it two restraints. Sure. One is it has to be on the North Carolina website, because now they can actually, we're using ChatGPT, it can actually go to a website and do searches. So that works out really well. The other one is that it has to give me like a call, you know, so it can't just be like tequila. I make it give me something specific. So here's what it came up with. One and a half ounces of Espelon Blanco tequila, one ounce of Kahlua, one ounce freshly brewed espresso cooled, half an ounce of homemade vanilla syrup, a quarter ounce fresh lemon juice, two dashes of Angostura cocoa bitters, and then a lemon twist or a dusting of cinnamon, you know, as the garnish. So basically it's chill a coop, put everything in the shaker, shake it vigorously, strain, you know, into the coop. So it actually does a double strain just to make sure you get a nice smooth velvety texture, and then throw your garnish on. These are our competitors. Are we ready to see what the scores are? Let's do it. Oh, yeah. So just as a reminder, the way scoring works is we have three big buckets of points, 50 points for taste, because, you know, that's really the most important to us. But, you know, presentation is important as well. So that's a 30 point potential. And then originality, because, you know, it's rare that you really make something that is whole cloth original, but you have 20 potential points there. So for taste, the AI scored 42 of a potential 50 points. Presentation, 23 of a potential 30. Originality, 16 of a potential 20, for a total of 81 points. Solid showing. You received 43 points for taste, 23 points for presentation, 18 points for originality, for a total of 84 points. Patty, you have defeated the AI. Congratulations. We appreciate you helping to stave off our AI overlords for another episode. If people want to keep up with you, if they want to see what you're doing and things like that, you know, where can they follow you? Where can they follow the foundation? Sure. So I'm on Instagram, mostly Patrick.jd. Foundation is also on Instagram. And I am there five days a week. So come hang out. Well, awesome. Thank you so much for being part of this episode. We appreciate you. Thank you for taking the time to sit down with us and answer all of our questions and create this amazing cocktail. Congratulations again on beating the AI. So this is us signing off for this episode saying drink well. Be well. And raise hell. We'll see you next time.